Don't Do Nothing

[00:00:00] Brad: He got his high school diploma at the age of 16 

[00:00:03] Aaron: And she’s like, “If you pushed, you could maybe get an associate’s degree.” And I was like, “Oh, that’s, that’s a lot of work.” And then I looked at it and I was like, “Why am I scared of, of work?” When someone criticizes a child, like, putting time into school or work, you’re like, you want them to instead be watching Game of Thrones at 15?

[00:00:20] Aaron: Yeah. Like- Yeah … 100 hours for- Mm-hmm … for the series? Like, do you think that’s a better use of time? 

[00:00:24] Brad: How do you feel about the way most 17-year-olds are indoctrinated- 

[00:00:31] Donovan: Yeah … 

[00:00:31] Brad: by, like, the culture? 

[00:00:33] Donovan: And I love the idea of just having families at the forefront of business. People just need to have something they’re working towards.

[00:00:39] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:00:40] Donovan: A religion they believe in. 

[00:00:41] Brad: Okay. Welcome back to another episode of the Don’t Do Nothing podcast. Today, we have record… We’re setting a record today. Yes. We have our youngest guest, Mr. Donovan Chan. So quick, quick intro. So Donovan, first off, he’s an excellent cook. Do you consider cook or chef? 

[00:00:58] Donovan: I would say cook.

[00:00:59] Donovan: I think chef is [00:01:00] more orchestrating multiple people. So I mean, home cook- Dude … excellent. Yeah. 

[00:01:04] Brad: I hope my kids are as smart as him. Uh, the reason I say I hope my kids are as smart as him is because he got his high school diploma at the age of 16, and also simultaneously at the age of 16, got his associate’s degree.

[00:01:17] Brad: Uh, if he wanted to, he would have his bachelor’s degree by now- … but he’s working on some other stuff. Yeah. He grew up, uh, as a third-generation Scientologist, so he did grow up a Scientologist. Uh, he plans, and has an actual plan, to build his family’s company, the Durable Site Company, to a billion-dollar business.

[00:01:37] Brad: That’s an amazing company. Yeah. You can definitely do it. 

[00:01:40] Donovan: Yes. 

[00:01:40] Brad: The work is for sure there. Dude, welcome to the show. 

[00:01:42] Donovan: Thank you. Yeah. 

[00:01:43] Brad: Yeah. Excited to have you here. 

[00:01:45] Donovan: Yeah. Very excited to be here. 

[00:01:46] Brad: So as our, um… Uh, you know, the, the first thing that I wanted to ask you that was really kind of burning in my mind is like- You’re, you’re 17 years old.

[00:01:58] Donovan: Yeah. [00:02:00] 

[00:02:00] Brad: How do you feel about the way most 17-year-olds are… The word that comes to mind is, like, indoctrinated- 

[00:02:08] Donovan: Yeah … 

[00:02:08] Brad: by, like, the culture? 

[00:02:10] Donovan: Mm. 

[00:02:10] Brad: Yeah. Like, what’s, what’s your take on that? Do you have an opinion on 

[00:02:12] Donovan: that? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, I- No, he 

[00:02:14] Aaron: doesn’t have an opinion, Brett, come on. He 

[00:02:16] Donovan: never formed one. No, I grew up very interested in politics, uh, global affairs- Ooh, wow

[00:02:22] Donovan: daily affairs. So I guess I look at people and I see, especially where education is today, and the lack of, I don’t know, just proper figures, teachers, teachers associations, and you just see a lot of people who are coming out with ideas that aren’t their own. 

[00:02:41] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:02:41] Donovan: And they cannot look at something and tell you, like L.

[00:02:44] Donovan: Ron Hubbard actually talks about that in a book called New Slant on Life, that personal integrity is being able to look at something and know what you know. Like, see what you see- 

[00:02:54] Aaron: Mm-hmm … 

[00:02:55] Donovan: and just believe that to be true. 

[00:02:56] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:56] Donovan: And so many people can’t do that. 

[00:02:59] Aaron: Mm. [00:03:00] Yeah. 

[00:03:00] Donovan: They look at something and they get the opinions of someone else, and so they just have that in the back of their mind.

[00:03:07] Donovan: It’s not their actual thought. And so to refer to your question of the culture, I think there’s people who aren’t driven by a purpose. They’re not well-informed or properly informed. They’re assuming the opinion of someone else. 

[00:03:19] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:03:19] Donovan: And so I think we need to have people that are more just educated, strongly driven, and I don’t know, having something that they’re, like, interested in.

[00:03:28] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:03:28] Donovan: So. 

[00:03:29] Brad: Yeah. What, th- for… Well, e- I mean, everybody’s doing something, right? Yeah. Like, they’re always doing something. 

[00:03:35] Donovan: Always something. 

[00:03:35] Brad: What, what do you think is, like, the majori- what is, like, the popular purpose for, like, kids these days? ‘Cause, like, you know, I’m 33, I’m pretty disconnected. Yeah. I, like, you know.

[00:03:43] Brad: Yeah. I don’t s- I don’t really know what’s, what’s, what’s in anymore. So, like, what, what is the common, like, even if it’s a bad thing, I’m just- I just wanna know, like, what’s most kids, like- Yeah … around your age’s purpose? 

[00:03:53] Donovan: Purpose? Um, I mean, growing up a Scientologist, obviously I was around people who have the [00:04:00] technology of Scientology, but I think the general purpose is more just, like, going to go to college and figure it out as I go.

[00:04:06] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:04:06] Donovan: And it’s this- Like, within the group or outside the group you’re talking about? I would say more outside. Okay. I think a lot of Scientologists have this viewpoint of something in specific. Maybe they apply the technology of it and they find something they’re interested in and use it. But I think a lot of people are just kind of going with the flows of life and not actually driving the boat of life.

[00:04:28] Donovan: Mm. And just actually going and seeing what happens. Just drifting in the current. Drifting, yeah. Mm. Instead of actually seeing what can they accomplish, what are they interested in, and just, “Oh, maybe I’ll find this or that.” 

[00:04:38] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:04:38] Aaron: So you mentioned that, uh, uh, I think it was last year, you went over to Japan.

[00:04:42] Donovan: Yes. 

[00:04:43] Aaron: And, uh- This 

[00:04:43] Donovan: January, yeah. 

[00:04:44] Aaron: Okay. So- Going to it, it’s a different culture. Yeah. This is fully out, you know, outside of a full… I mean, were, were you born in the US? 

[00:04:52] Donovan: Yeah, yeah, I was born here. Okay. My dad was born in Hong Kong, but I was born here. 

[00:04:54] Aaron: Okay. So when you went out there, what did you see? Are you able to see, like, it’s a fully different culture, right?

[00:04:59] Aaron: Fully different. [00:05:00] Like, what did you observe being there as, at your age, right? Yeah. You were 

[00:05:03] Donovan: there 

[00:05:04] Aaron: at 16? 17. 17. 16, yeah, 

[00:05:04] Donovan: yeah. 

[00:05:05] Aaron: 17. 

[00:05:06] Donovan: But I, I don’t know. You just go there, it’s fully different from the US. I mean, every aspect. Like for instance, it’s one of the cleanest places I’ve ever been in. Mm. Oh. And there’s no trash cans.

[00:05:18] Brad: What? 

[00:05:18] Donovan: There’s no… Everyone who gets food or they eat, they carry the trash with them back to their apartment, back to wherever there’s a trash can. But I’d be walking, you know, 20,000 steps a day, and I’m just carrying this bottle because there’s not a, there’s not a trash can in sight for hours. Oh, wow. And so- 

[00:05:36] Brad: Okay, question.

[00:05:37] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:05:38] Brad: Like lit- I’m just actually curious. Yeah, 

[00:05:40] Donovan: yeah. 

[00:05:40] Brad: What would happen if you threw the bottle on the ground? Like, what do you think would happen, like, with- Get arrested … from what you observed? 

[00:05:44] Donovan: I don’t know if they have policy. I know, like Singapore- Yeah … you need a doctor’s prescription for chewing gum because it’s, one, it’s illegal, and two, spitting- You can’t…

[00:05:53] Donovan: No, you can’t … you can’t- No, no, you can’t … spitting is, uh, I think you can get caned for it, I’m pretty sure. 

[00:05:58] Aaron: Ca- what do you mean caned? Like 

[00:05:59] Donovan: smacked with a cane? I’m [00:06:00] pretty sure. I think Singapore- That means smacked with a cane … still has caning. I could be wrong on that. Fact-check me on that, but I’m pretty sure, might not be for that crime of chewing gum, but I do know they have caning still involved.

[00:06:12] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:06:13] Donovan: But I don’t know. I mean, everyone’s so polite. Like, you get on the subway, you go to New York, everyone’s talking. It’s loud. There’s a homeless guy over there. Oops. Homeless guy over there. You go to Japan, everyone’s silent. 

[00:06:24] Aaron: Hmm. Huh. 

[00:06:25] Donovan: There’s… It’s like it’s rude to talk. It’s rude to talk? Oh. On a subway in Japan, like everyone is so polite, so nice, such good manners, and I don’t know, vastly different from here.

[00:06:38] Brad: Huh. 

[00:06:38] Donovan: Yeah. Wow. 

[00:06:39] Aaron: Was it your idea to go over there, or how, how did you end up in Japan? 

[00:06:41] Donovan: Uh, kind of family idea. So we were gonna go in 2020 for my brother’s graduation. Mm-hmm. We had tickets for the Olympics. 

[00:06:47] Brad: How’d that work out? 

[00:06:47] Donovan: Uh, not great. Uh, COVID kind of smacked us, and then we were gonna go in ’21, but they made it only Japan, no outsiders.

[00:06:57] Donovan: And so we finally went. Hmm. I graduated in [00:07:00] May of this past year, so we went in January, and yeah, it was a great experience there- Wow … and Hong Kong as well. 

[00:07:06] Brad: Oh, you went to Hong 

[00:07:06] Donovan: Kong 

[00:07:06] Brad: too? Yeah. 

[00:07:07] Donovan: So it was cool. I mean, going to the exact point where, like, my dad grew up, where he was born there, seeing that, like, address and spot.

[00:07:15] Donovan: Yeah. Wow. It’s a very cool place. 

[00:07:17] Aaron: Okay. So, uh, you mentioned your… Not on the podcast, but- Yeah … before the podcast, you mentioned that, um, your family found Scientology through your grandmother. Yes. I mean, your grandmother found Scientology in the ’70s. 

[00:07:26] Brad: Yeah, 

[00:07:26] Donovan: I wanna hear 

[00:07:26] Brad: about this. 

[00:07:27] Aaron: Yeah. And your dad was then born in Hong 

[00:07:30] Donovan: Kong.

[00:07:30] Donovan: He was born in 1963 in Hong Kong 

[00:07:32] Aaron: Oh, so sh- so, oh, I got- He- Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. So yeah, because sh- there’s… Okay, so tell me how it went down. He was a sci- he 

[00:07:38] Donovan: was a Scientologist beforehand, so I don’t exactly know the story. I’ve heard a few different versions. Uh-huh. I don’t know the exact one of how he found it, but I know my grandmother was, like, looking for various religions, and I think, like Greek Orthodox- Mm-hmm

[00:07:54] Donovan: Catholic, Christians, various things, and I think she ended up getting, I wanna say it was, like, a book one, [00:08:00] which if you don’t know, book one is Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health, an auditing session by a Scientology auditor, like a counselor- Mm … is what auditing is. 

[00:08:10] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:10] Donovan: And she got it, and instantly was like, “This is the thing.”

[00:08:16] Donovan: Mm. Like, “This is the thing I’ve been looking for.” And if you talk to a lot of Scientologists, I’m sure you guys maybe had a similar idea of like, “Like, I found it.” 

[00:08:25] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:25] Brad: Yep. 

[00:08:25] Donovan: Like, “I wasn’t sure what I was looking for, but, like, this is the thing.” 

[00:08:30] Brad: Yep. Yep. 

[00:08:31] Donovan: And- 

[00:08:31] Brad: 100%. 

[00:08:32] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:08:33] Aaron: Was that in Hong Kong, though? Or where, where, where?

[00:08:34] Donovan: No, yeah, sh- my, uh, my grandmother on my mom’s side. Oh. 

[00:08:38] Aaron: So I’m 

[00:08:38] Donovan: half- Okay … I’m half Chinese, half American. 

[00:08:40] Aaron: Okay. 

[00:08:41] Brad: Oh. 

[00:08:42] Donovan: So this was in- Got it … good old, I think Columbus, Ohio. 

[00:08:45] Aaron: Okay. 

[00:08:45] Brad: Oh, wow. 

[00:08:47] Donovan: So yeah, that was where it started with her, and then my dad, I’m not sure how he found it, but, um, he and my mom met, and then, yeah, the rest is history.

[00:08:57] Brad: Wow. Dude, your parents are such, like some of the [00:09:00] nicest people I’ve ever met- Yeah … in my life. 

[00:09:01] Donovan: Like- I remember, ’cause I met you back at my house for renovation projects we were starting to look at. 

[00:09:07] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:09:07] Donovan: And then I don’t think I even connected the dots until- Mm … I asked her, she’s like, “Oh yeah, that was the guy who was working at our house.”

[00:09:13] Donovan: And I was like, “Oh.” 

[00:09:14] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:09:14] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:09:15] Brad: Yeah. It was wild, dude. Yeah. Crazy, crazy series of events. Um, so- My… Oh, damn. I had a question and I totally lost it. Yeah. 

[00:09:25] Donovan: It’s okay, we’ll come back to you. 

[00:09:26] Aaron: Well, yeah, I’m just trying to see if there’s… So I’m, I’m, I’m still trying to unravel this. Yeah. I’m trying to make the connection.

[00:09:30] Aaron: Unravel it. Okay. So your grandmother American- Yeah … side, she finds Scientology. 

[00:09:36] Donovan: For sure. 

[00:09:37] Aaron: But your, this is not through, this is not your dad’s side. No. That’s your mom’s side. 

[00:09:42] Donovan: Yes. 

[00:09:42] Aaron: Okay, and your dad found this independently, separately. 

[00:09:45] Donovan: Yes. 

[00:09:46] Aaron: Not through your mother. 

[00:09:46] Donovan: Not through- What? I’d have to, I’d have to ask him how he found- I’ve heard a few different stories.

[00:09:52] Donovan: I don’t wanna say in case it’s the wrong one. Okay. Yeah, 

[00:09:54] Aaron: yeah. Okay, okay. We’ll bring him on. 

[00:09:55] Donovan: Yeah. We’ll 

[00:09:55] Aaron: invite him. 

[00:09:56] Donovan: We’ll invite him soon as he comes. But, uh, I do know he was working, like the Durable Slate Company [00:10:00] started, he was working with a handyman. It was not, like, a slate roofing company. They were doing small jobs like that, and he was a Scientologist.

[00:10:09] Donovan: So it may have started there, it may have started earlier. 

[00:10:11] Brad: Oh, the guy he was working with was a Scientologist. Yeah. Ah, that makes sense. 

[00:10:14] Donovan: And then he ended up- Mm-hmm … basically, big dream, runs in the family. Ended up taking it over, turned it into, you know, eight-figure, uh, construction slate- 

[00:10:24] Brad: Mm-hmm … 

[00:10:24] Donovan: historic preservation company, and yeah.

[00:10:28] Brad: Yeah. Amazing. I, I’ve, I’ve heard… I, I won’t mention the specifics ’cause I’ve been told not to, but, uh, there’s some ama- that company, the, some of the projects they do- Oh, yeah … your Michael, your, your, your dad’s talked to me about it. Incredible. 

[00:10:39] Donovan: Incredible. Well, you, you can look it up. 

[00:10:41] Aaron: Oh. 

[00:10:41] Donovan: Uh, you look it 

[00:10:41] Aaron: up 

[00:10:42] Donovan: on- There’s some, you can look 

[00:10:42] Aaron: it up

[00:10:43] Aaron: on 

[00:10:43] Donovan: Michael 

[00:10:43] Aaron: Chan’s 

[00:10:43] Donovan: Facebook. And there’s some you can’t look- I don’t know if you have some- … I don’t know if some you can’t look. Some, some might be NBAs and whatnot- Yeah … but there are- There’s a lot of great projects you can look up Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can go on- Yeah … the website and see all the things we’ve worked on.

[00:10:51] Aaron: Even 

[00:10:51] Brad: the, yeah, and even the ones on the website are ridiculous. Website and on Facebook. 

[00:10:54] Aaron: And I think there’s a Scientology TV episode, no? 

[00:10:56] Donovan: There is for- Mm … 

[00:10:57] Aaron: uh, my uncle, John Chan. Oh, John Chan, yeah. Which I know on [00:11:00] Facebook he is posting, like, updates of projects he’s working on, things that are happening, stuff like that.

[00:11:04] Aaron: So we’ll put the link down below if you wanna check those out. Yeah. There’s a great company. 

[00:11:07] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:11:07] Aaron: Um, so- 

[00:11:08] Brad: Wait, wait, I remembered. Yeah, go, go, go. I remembered what the thing was. You had a 

[00:11:10] Aaron: question? 

[00:11:10] Brad: Yeah. Let’s do it. So, um, I was ha- I was having dinner with a friend last week. 

[00:11:15] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:11:15] Brad: And, uh, I, he is really into, uh, he likes getting, like, chiropractic adjustments.

[00:11:21] Donovan: Hm, I mean, 

[00:11:21] Brad: I don’t- This is, he’s, he’s a Scientologist. Yeah. And, um- He, uh, we were saying something and he said, “Oh, I’m gonna go get an adjustment,” blah, blah, blah. And I was like, “You know, I’ve never had an adjustment.” 

[00:11:31] Donovan: Oh. 

[00:11:31] Brad: And, yeah. And he w- he goes- You’ve 

[00:11:34] Donovan: never had an adjust- You’ve never been adjusted? 

[00:11:35] Brad: Yeah, so this is the reaction that he gave me.

[00:11:37] Brad: Yeah, it’s strange. He’s like, he’s like, “What?” And I said, “Dude,” and I stopped and I was like, “Bro, that’s the reaction that we need to have when, when people are like, ‘You’ve never been in session?’” 

[00:11:47] Aaron: Mm. Yeah, you never, you never- That’s a good- You never read Dynamics? Yeah. 

[00:11:50] Brad: You never read Dynamics? What’s up with that?

[00:11:51] Aaron: How could you? 

[00:11:52] Brad: Yeah. You, you’ve never, like you’ve never, like- True … felt the relief of like handling like an upset with another person- Uh, yeah … via communication? You know, it’s like [00:12:00] the… I was like, “Dude, that’s what it needs to be like with people, like going in session.” ‘Cause it- Yeah. Wow … for me, I, I view it the same way, is it’s like, you know, having the reality of like you can have your religion and still experience the benefits of Scientology.

[00:12:11] Brad: 100%. And they don’t conflict at all. 

[00:12:12] Aaron: Not at all. 

[00:12:13] Brad: You know? It’s the s- it, it’s not the same as, I won’t say that, but it’s like, for me, it’s almost like saying, “Yeah, I’m, I’m Jewish, and I also get an adjustment.” Yeah. It’s 

[00:12:23] Aaron: like, 

[00:12:24] Brad: it’s like there’s no- Well, 

[00:12:24] Aaron: yeah, because Scientology is all denominational. All denominations- Yeah, yeah

[00:12:27] Aaron: are invited. For sure. The thing is, it’s religion against anti-religion. 

[00:12:32] Donovan: Yep. Yeah. 

[00:12:32] Aaron: And, and the guys get… Like, that’s really the fight is like the whole like, “Hey, solve everything with drugs, solve everything with, you know- Oh, yeah … shock, shock.” Yeah. Like, that is the enemy of all religions. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And religions working together, and Scientology is, I think, unique in its way of like, we don’t need you to say that we’re the only thing that exists.

[00:12:50] Donovan: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:12:51] Aaron: Right? It’s like you, you can study this, use it, and your path to God is your path to God. 

[00:12:58] Donovan: Mm-hmm. For 

[00:12:58] Aaron: sure. And our, and our goals, we [00:13:00] want you to have everything that Christianity promise you, you know, wisdom, immortality, good health. Everything that has been promised or is offered in any religion, we would love you to achieve this.

[00:13:10] Aaron: Yes. Mm-hmm. We have the same goals. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so, uh, anyway. 

[00:13:14] Donovan: Which one thing to circle back to, like I was saying earlier, of like in regards to people having purpose, I think just religion needs to be more there. Mm. Regardless of that, if that’s Scientology, Christianity, Catholicism, Hinduism- Mm … uh, just anything.

[00:13:28] Donovan: Just people need to have something that they believe in, I think. 

[00:13:31] Aaron: Mm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:32] Donovan: Mm-hmm. Because I think you’re starting to see it of people who are just becoming more religious, like religious and Catholic, all these things, having something you believe in is just, I don’t know, it’s good for the soul, good for the spirit.

[00:13:45] Aaron: 100%. 

[00:13:45] Brad: It, yeah, it totally is, ’cause it, it- From my viewpoint, it takes your attention off of the immediate gratification- For sure … which a lot of time leads to bad decisions. 

[00:13:54] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:13:55] Brad: That’s what I… Like, all life-ruining decisions start with immediate gratification. Yes. [00:14:00] Right? 

[00:14:00] Aaron: That’s true. 

[00:14:01] Brad: Pretty- I think it’s true

[00:14:01] Brad: I can’t think of one where it doesn’t. 

[00:14:02] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:14:03] Brad: It’s like, “This will feel really good right now.” Yeah, 

[00:14:05] Aaron: the impulse. 

[00:14:05] Brad: And then five years later, your life is destroyed. Nope, 

[00:14:08] Aaron: five minutes later. 

[00:14:09] Brad: Or five mi- Yeah. Depending on, you know, what you’re doing. Okay. So you’re, you know, get- getting back to you and- Yeah … and your story, Donovan.

[00:14:17] Brad: What, so what was your, how did you actually get introduced to Scientology? What, what did that look like for you? Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:14:25] Donovan: Um, so obviously, like my parents are both Scientologists, but growing up, it was never this like, “You have to do this.” It was very like, “Whenever you wanna start, if you wanna start, however you want to go on your path, you do that.”

[00:14:40] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:40] Donovan: And so I was like, “Okay.” I met this auditor of mine. Uh, she’s watching this, she knows who she is. And I did something called a life repair, which is basically where you go in session and you really just handle anything that the auditor and you feel needs to be handled. So anything that you have going on in [00:15:00] life, they maybe assess some things, see how things are going with certain people, feelings, ideas, and you just handle whatever you feel needs to be handled.

[00:15:09] Donovan: And so that was really my first thing. I did that when I was 11. 

[00:15:13] Aaron: And so what, at that moment, what was like the most pressing thing in your life- Um … that you wanted to take care of? 

[00:15:18] Donovan: Um, pressing thing. Honestly, I don’t even remember it that handled. That’s one thing with Scientology is you take- … especially Dianetics, you have this thing and you’re like, “God, this is bothering me.

[00:15:30] Donovan: This is bothering me.” And you go in and you actually erase it. Like, you get rid of it. 

[00:15:36] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:15:36] Donovan: And 20 minutes later, you’re not even sure what the thing was sometimes. 

[00:15:40] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Yep. 

[00:15:41] Donovan: Or like I have, you’ll have this idea and you’re like, “Wow, I see this different.” And then you don’t even realize that you see it different, you just see it different, if that makes sense.

[00:15:51] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:52] Donovan: Like, it’s just a new part of who you are now. And so- I guess one thing I’ve kinda struggled with [00:16:00] throughout was intolerance of incompetence. 

[00:16:03] Brad: Mm. Which is 

[00:16:04] Donovan: a, it’s a very funny thing to look at. Beautifully put. Like, I would just get, like, annoyed with incompetence or things like that, and as I did Scientology and Dianetics, it was very addressed in Dianetics.

[00:16:16] Donovan: Like, I could actually go and see what specific thing was holding that there. Why was I upset with people who were less competent than me or had this certain issue that maybe slowed me down? And I could see that, handle it, and I don’t have that anymore. 

[00:16:33] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:33] Donovan: Mm-hmm. And so, I don’t know, it’s such a incredible thing to have, I guess.

[00:16:37] Donovan: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:38] Brad: Yeah, it is. 

[00:16:38] Aaron: That’s amazing. 

[00:16:38] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:16:39] Aaron: And I mean, I think in percentage of people that finish an associate’s degree at 16, that’s probably, like- I mean, I’ve, I don’t know if I’ve even met someone like that. It’s 

[00:16:47] Donovan: not a lot. Not a lot. 

[00:16:48] Aaron: Uh, so h- how did you, like, decide, “Hey, I’m gonna go through all this schooling and do this”?

[00:16:52] Aaron: Yeah. Like, you have to have a drive, right? Yeah. That’s not… I’m, I’m assuming that’s not your parents like, “You need to finish fast.” Like, you- Oh, no, no, no … that was you wanting to. I 

[00:16:58] Donovan: did not have, like, the [00:17:00] Chinese parents of like- Mm-hmm. … “You have to do this.” No. Yeah. It was like, if anything, my mom’s actually the one that’s more, especially with academics, more driven like that.

[00:17:10] Donovan: My dad obviously knows I’m very smart, wants me to do- 

[00:17:14] Aaron: Mm-hmm … 

[00:17:14] Donovan: as well as I can, but she’s the one who challenges me. Like, any time I do something or public speaking, I will go to her for criticism, because everyone else is gonna be like, “Oh, that was fantastic, amazing.” And I can go to her and get the actual- 

[00:17:31] Aaron: Yeah

[00:17:31] Donovan: “What do I need to improve on? What am I missing?” 

[00:17:34] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:17:34] Donovan: And so it started when I was, for the associate’s degree, when I was 12 or 13. Mm-hmm. And I know Florida, the school I went to, Clearwater Academy International, you guys had Mr. Jim Zweers on. Mm, yeah, yeah. 

[00:17:46] Aaron: Yeah, 

[00:17:46] Brad: yep. 

[00:17:47] Donovan: Yeah. So there’s a program called dual enrollment- Mm-hmm

[00:17:50] Donovan: where you can be taking high school classes and at the same time take college classes. 

[00:17:54] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:55] Donovan: And so I went to a seminar about it, thought about it, looked it over, and [00:18:00] my mom was like, “You know, if you really pushed…” ‘Cause my brother did that and got a semester of college done. 

[00:18:05] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:18:05] Donovan: And she’s like, “If you pushed, you could maybe get an associate’s degree.”

[00:18:09] Donovan: And I was like, “Oh, that’s, that’s a lot of work.” And then I looked at it and I was like, “Why am I scared of, of work?” 

[00:18:16] Aaron: Mm. Ah. 

[00:18:16] Donovan: Like, what’s, what’s the fear- of this, like just actually engage and do something. And so I looked at it, mapped it out, like very specifically and systematically of like, what do I need to do to achieve this?

[00:18:32] Donovan: And then just building it out, and yeah, I accomplished it. 16, high school graduate, valedictorian, associate’s degree, Clearwater Academy Hall of Fame. Just- That’s great. I wanted to make sure that I was going to… It’s a common like principle in Scientology of like leaving a place better than you found it.

[00:18:51] Donovan: Mm. 

[00:18:51] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:18:52] Donovan: And so I wanted to go into that school. I went in there when I was three years old. 

[00:18:56] Aaron: Mm. Wow. 

[00:18:56] Donovan: And at every opportunity I had, [00:19:00] I wanted to leave an impact. And so whether that was just like, I don’t think… Like if I can accomplish that, I don’t want it to just be like, “Okay, I did it. Now you guys go figure out how to do it.”

[00:19:10] Donovan: So I was helping people and meeting with people to show them, “This is what I did. This is how you do it.” Like, it’s really, it’s not a very difficult or lengthy thing to do. Mm-hmm. It’s not like you need to be able to do, I don’t know, X, Y, and Z. It’s just systematic planning. 

[00:19:29] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:19:30] Donovan: And like Scientology defines a student as one who studies, an attentive and systematic observer.

[00:19:36] Brad: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:19:37] Donovan: And so you really just, you look at the thing, you create a system of how you wanna do it, and you just go about it, and observe, learn. Yeah. 

[00:19:46] Brad: Yeah. I have a question- So how was… Go, go, go. I have a question 

[00:19:48] Donovan: for you. Yeah. 

[00:19:48] Brad: Is this making you think about your kids? 

[00:19:50] Aaron: No. 

[00:19:51] Brad: No? No. Dude, as you’re talking I’m like, like my, my older daughter- Yeah

[00:19:54] Brad: is at Clearwater Academy. She’s in the, the little- Yeah … littler kids class, but I’m like, I’m just, this is making me think about my [00:20:00] kids. She’s running for her associate’s degree. No, no, no. I mean, no. No, it’s just inspiring. Yeah, no, it’s good. It’s like a good, it’s a good, it’s a good thing to- Yeah … you know?

[00:20:05] Brad: Yeah. It’s a… Sorry. You were gonna ask something. No, no, it’s fine. No, you’re good.

[00:20:09] Brad: You’re 

[00:20:10] Aaron: good. Okay, okay. So my question is, like when you see that, get a 12, fine. Good. You’re gonna finish this stuff, but like- Sure H- did you change your hours? Like, is that like you’re, you know, normal people, you’re going to school, whatever, I don’t know, nine to, nine to five, right? Yeah. You kind of go, call, go alongs with the, the schedule the parents during the schools.

[00:20:27] Aaron: Nine to five, 

[00:20:28] Donovan: 7:30 to two. Yeah. Whichever it is. 

[00:20:29] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:20:29] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:20:30] Aaron: So did you get it in the same time? Did you put a certain… Like, how did you organize it? Were you like, “Hey, my, my hobby is gonna be studying,” so you’re studying 

[00:20:37] Donovan: like- Yeah … 

[00:20:38] Aaron: all the way till 10? 

[00:20:38] Donovan: Like- Ah. 

[00:20:39] Aaron: Just, just tax. Uh-huh. I just wanna know, like- Yeah

[00:20:41] Aaron: how do you do that? 

[00:20:42] Donovan: Uh, well I didn’t have to push back graduation at all. So one thing during COVID, I was 11, and so everyone, you know, goofing off, whatever, I was like, “Okay, this is a great opportunity. I’m online.” ‘Cause one thing… I feel like I should back up. Clearwater Academy, for those of you who don’t know, is not [00:21:00] like a normal school where you have your classes and then you graduate, you start the next year in August.

[00:21:06] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:06] Donovan: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s not time-based. You’re programmed for everything you need to do, all your credits for that year. 

[00:21:12] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:13] Donovan: And as soon as you finish that, you can go on to the next. 

[00:21:16] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:16] Donovan: Mm-hmm. And so COVID, I was like, “Fantastic. I have all my stuff. I know what I need to do. I have all this free time. Why don’t I just get, be productive and get stuff done?”

[00:21:26] Donovan: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:26] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:27] Donovan: And so I did that, finished probably a year, year and a half of school, like three, four months. 

[00:21:32] Aaron: Oh, wow. 

[00:21:32] Donovan: Mm. Yeah. ‘Cause we were, Florida was great. We were only closed… I was in Paris when it happened, so got a flight back. We were closed from middle of March to June. 

[00:21:41] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:42] Donovan: So we were much better than California, New York- Yeah

[00:21:45] Donovan: all those other places. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:46] Brad: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:21:47] Donovan: And yeah, like you were saying, if I had to change my hours, I mean, yeah, when you want to ach- achieve and strive for greatness, you don’t do that by putting the same result in. Like, I think it was Einstein who said, like, [00:22:00] “Insanity is putting the same,” or whatever it is, putting the same- The input, 

[00:22:04] Aaron: same input, 

[00:22:04] Donovan: right?

[00:22:04] Donovan: Yeah, same input- Mm-hmm … and expecting to get a different output. 

[00:22:06] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:07] Donovan: Yeah. It’s like, yeah, I was going to have to… Yes, I had nights where I was up at 11:50, 12:00 getting assignments done. 

[00:22:14] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:14] Donovan: But if you have a purpose and you want to strive for it, you’re going to push for that. 

[00:22:19] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:22:20] Donovan: And you’re going to work and get it.

[00:22:22] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:23] Donovan: So… Yeah, 

[00:22:24] Aaron: and the alternative, I mean, me at that age, okay? I would be playing- Oh my God. There’s various games, uh- Oh, yeah … RuneScape- Sure … World of Warcraft, Neopets. Yeah. Random ones. Call of Duty. Like, that’s till, like- 

[00:22:35] Brad: Mm … 

[00:22:35] Aaron: not 12, but 

[00:22:36] Donovan: like- 

[00:22:36] Aaron: Yeah … till 1:00, 2:00, 3:00. I mean, in the summers I’d stay up till, like, 5:00 in the morning.

[00:22:39] Aaron: Yeah. Absolutely. You know what I mean? So I’m just saying, like- Yeah … what do you think is healthier, and what do you think is more, like- Neopets or like getting all your school done by- Yeah … like 16. I mean, I don’t know, I’m just saying, like there’s an option. I think, and also- And it’s because people go and they’re gonna say- Yeah

[00:22:53] Aaron: those kids are whatever. Like, dude, I, I don’t know what to say. When, when, when someone criticizes a child, like putting time into [00:23:00] school or work, you’re like, you want them to instead be watching Game of Thrones at 15? Yeah. Like- Yeah … 100 hours for- Mm-hmm … for the series? Like do you think that’s a better use of time?

[00:23:10] Aaron: And, and I don’t think people 

[00:23:11] Brad: understand- We lucked it up, it was only 76 hours. 

[00:23:13] Aaron: 76, oh yeah, whatever. Yeah, but then I don’t know. 

[00:23:15] Donovan: I think it also goes 

[00:23:16] Aaron: back to what- At 16 you’re probably rewinding some of those. 

[00:23:18] Donovan: What you said of like instant gratification. 

[00:23:21] Aaron: Um, yeah. 

[00:23:21] Donovan: Yeah. Of people who push for that instant dopamine hit, that instant gratification, and they’re not actually thinking ahead of what will benefit them.

[00:23:29] Donovan: Like sure, doing like playing video games till 5:00 AM, sure, great. You’re gonna feel great. You’re also gonna feel super tired the next morning. 

[00:23:36] Brad: Yeah, you’re trashed, yeah. 

[00:23:38] Donovan: And I don’t know. Don’t think I wasn’t like having fun. I watch more football than pretty much anybody I know. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I’m in six fantasy football leagues.

[00:23:45] Donovan: Wow. 

[00:23:45] Aaron: I, 

[00:23:46] Donovan: I know a lot of all, so it’s like- Yeah … I was definitely still enjoying myself having fun, but I also had a purpose in mind and went for that. 

[00:23:55] Aaron: Mm-hmm, 

[00:23:56] Donovan: mm-hmm. And yeah. Like I said, I think people just need to have [00:24:00] something they’re working towards. Mm. A religion they believe in, something that they keep their, I don’t know, eye on the horizon.

[00:24:07] Donovan: Something that they’re- Mm-hmm … just believing in and working towards really. Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:11] Brad: Yeah. Is… Would you say fantasy football and like, like football… Do you… Are… You guys are really into college football now, aren’t you? Oh, yeah. Ohio 

[00:24:18] Donovan: State. Yeah. OH. 

[00:24:19] Brad: Yeah. Yeah, so college and NFL or just college? 

[00:24:22] Donovan: Uh, my dad is more college, and then he’ll like watch NFL.

[00:24:27] Donovan: Me and my brother, we mapped it out. It’s probably like 20, 25 hours a week of football watching. 

[00:24:33] Brad: Really? 

[00:24:34] Donovan: Wow. ‘Cause it’s… I’ll, I’ll break down the math. So it’s three hours for the Ohio State game. I’m gonna be at University of Florida this fall, so that’s probably another three-ish hours. And then Sunday afternoon, 1:00 to whenever.

[00:24:48] Donovan: Obviously, I’m not just like bunkered down watching the whole time. Like I have it on my phone, I’m doing other things. That’s another Could be nine hours while I’m doing other things, watching, paying attention. Oh, wow. 

[00:24:59] Brad: [00:25:00] Yeah. 

[00:25:00] Donovan: Thursday night, Monday night. So it, it, it builds up. Wow. Well, man, 

[00:25:05] Aaron: hey, this is the free time that he bought- Yeah

[00:25:07] Aaron: from all the stuff that he did before, you know? Yeah. I mean, you build the free… That’s like- Yeah … that’s one thing I could never do very well, or not, I just didn’t do it in school is like, you have something due- Yeah … you have work. 

[00:25:17] Brad: Sure. 

[00:25:18] Aaron: And my tendency was Sunday, 8:00 PM, get started. You know what I’m saying?

[00:25:22] Brad: Last-minute-itis. 

[00:25:24] Aaron: And so – I do that too sometimes … and so Friday and Saturday, you know what I mean, that’s the slack-off time. But you finished everything literally, like, how many years? Like, that’s like four years in advance of, of 

[00:25:32] Donovan: the average. Yeah, technically. High school would be a year or two ahead, but then the associate’s degree is another two.

[00:25:36] Donovan: That’s another two years, 

[00:25:37] Aaron: right? Yeah. So, so you, you finished four years ahead. 

[00:25:40] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:25:40] Aaron: So in theory, you literally could slack off for four years. Yeah. Not 

[00:25:42] Donovan: that w- not that you would need to. Not that I would. And 

[00:25:44] Brad: you’re only 17 still. 

[00:25:45] Donovan: Yeah. It’s crazy. Yeah. Anyway, I know you 

[00:25:47] Brad: go out in the fall. So you already, you bought that time.

[00:25:49] Brad: Yeah. So in like a month and a half? 

[00:25:50] Donovan: Yeah, six weeks. August 14th, 

[00:25:53] Aaron: I’m out of here. So why, so, so why, so like of course there was a seminar, hey, you have this idea you could graduate early, but like why? Yeah. Are you 

[00:25:58] Donovan: going for a specific degree? [00:26:00] I’m going for finance, and then because I have this- 

[00:26:02] Brad: Oh, dude. 

[00:26:03] Donovan: Yeah.

[00:26:04] Donovan: So- That’s 

[00:26:04] Brad: so good … 

[00:26:05] Donovan: my brother did business management, and that was originally what I was gonna do, but I, he talked to me and then his roommate, who he went to school with since he was three, was kind of just like, “Why go for something like business management when I can go for finance?” Like, yes, it’s gonna be, I’ll be working in the business management area, but finance just only gives me more info and data to build off of.

[00:26:26] Donovan: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:26] Brad: Mm. 

[00:26:26] Donovan: And so with the associate’s degree, I can go in and not just do one degree in four years, but I can go two degrees. I can do, do a degree and three minors. So I’m weighing my options to see- And so, so- … what I wanna do. 

[00:26:39] Aaron: Wow. And this is, so again, uh, your degree you got at St. Petersburg College, right?

[00:26:43] Donovan: Yeah, was just general education. 

[00:26:44] Aaron: Okay, so gen- so it’s not a, a specialty. 

[00:26:46] Donovan: No. 

[00:26:46] Aaron: And ca- always, associate’s is always just general, right? You can’t 

[00:26:49] Donovan: really- No, you can do, uh, like a associate’s in science where it’s like a specific- Oh, I didn’t know that. Yeah, so I did AA, so associate’s in arts. That’s typically more generalized, but there’s people who do like computer science, business- 

[00:26:59] Aaron: Hmm

[00:26:59] Donovan: and [00:27:00] whatnot. 

[00:27:00] Aaron: Hmm. Okay. 

[00:27:00] Donovan: But I was basically going ’cause like I don’t wanna go into college and then have to take all those both gender studies and the this blah, blah, blah. Like I wanted to knock out everything I could so I can go in and just start what I’m interested in. Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:13] Aaron: Hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:14] Donovan: And so got all the general education stuff out, some stuff about business, finance, and then yeah, I can just go in and do what I want to do.

[00:27:22] Donovan: Absolutely, which is great. Now wouldn’t 

[00:27:25] Aaron: it be great if that’s just what college was? Only 

[00:27:27] Donovan: the stuff- It should be … you wanted 

[00:27:28] Aaron: to 

[00:27:28] Donovan: do, right? I mean- It really should be- 

[00:27:29] Brad: Yeah … 

[00:27:30] Donovan: how that is. Like I And I’m not fully against, like, a liberal arts background. Like, I think people should have an idea of what’s going on.

[00:27:39] Donovan: But I think, like Charlie Kirk had a good way of doing that. He would obviously, the people there are a little biased, but he would have people raise their hand of like, “How many of you are taking a class that you think is a waste of time and you don’t wanna take?” 

[00:27:51] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Hmm. 

[00:27:52] Donovan: And you’ll see most hands go up, and I think you should have the ability to just go in and sure, take some core classes, composition, whatnot, [00:28:00] but you don’t need to go in and learn, I don’t know, various things that are not useful and applicable to your life- 

[00:28:07] Brad: Yeah

[00:28:08] Donovan: and your career. 

[00:28:09] Aaron: So what is the most useless class you’ve ever taken? 

[00:28:11] Donovan: Uh, a class called The College Experience. Okay. 

[00:28:14] Aaron: No way. 

[00:28:15] Donovan: Yeah. So- 

[00:28:16] Aaron: No way. 

[00:28:17] Donovan: So a reason I took it, one, I needed a filler class. I needed some credits, and I was like, “This is gonna be a joke.” And I go in, and it’s literally my weekly assignments are, like, modules, and it’s just the most, how would I even put it?

[00:28:33] Donovan: Like, my assignments are like, “Give three tips of how you’ll build a healthy work environment in college.” 

[00:28:40] Brad: What? 

[00:28:40] Donovan: It’s like discussion, like two discussion posts a week, and it’s like 100 words, and it’s like, “How are you going to manage your classes? What degree are you in?” What the hell? “How will you, how will you manage your mental health with this?”

[00:28:53] Brad: Wow. 

[00:28:54] Donovan: And the crazy thing is, there’s probably 30 people in that class. I’m one of 30 who [00:29:00] can answer that question and know the actual truth. 

[00:29:03] Brad: Yeah. Hmm. 

[00:29:04] Donovan: 29 other people, they wanna handle their mental health, “Oh, go take, go take this drug.” ‘Cause the actual, the mental health industry is not about, and Tom Cruise and other people write on this way before anyone else.

[00:29:16] Donovan: I know RFK’s investigating the link of SSRIs- 

[00:29:19] Brad: Mm-hmm … 

[00:29:20] Donovan: and school shootings and whatnot. 

[00:29:21] Brad: Yep. 

[00:29:22] Donovan: The link is not a chemical imbalance. Uh-huh. 

[00:29:24] Brad: Mm-hmm, 

[00:29:25] Aaron: mm-hmm. 

[00:29:25] Donovan: The, it’s a money-driven industry that’s trying to get you to be quiet and go into a state of apathy and not actually handle the problem. 

[00:29:34] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:34] Donovan: Yep. And you look at really big anything, it’s not about handling the problem, it’s about how can we make a quick buck.

[00:29:41] Brad: Yeah, and o- off of their, their debilitations and- Yeah … disabilities. 

[00:29:44] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:29:45] Brad: Yeah. What, I’m curious, how did you answer the question about how are you gonna manage your mental health? 

[00:29:50] Donovan: Um, I think I put something, I forget what I even put. It was something like- Focusing on the future, like maintaining, [00:30:00] I don’t know, go- I think I said like going on a walk or something or like thing- Oh, that’s a good one.

[00:30:03] Donovan: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm … ’cause that is one thing he suggests. Like I didn’t wanna go in and say Dianetics and Scientology, not ’cause I’m afraid to say that, but I don’t wanna go in and give people a bunch of words that they don’t understand. 

[00:30:14] Aaron: Mm-hmm, 

[00:30:14] Donovan: mm-hmm. And so I could say things that are similar or good advice tips- Right

[00:30:19] Donovan: but not something that’s fully psychiatrist of, “Oh, I’ll go see a therapist-” Mm “… and go take this drug,” and yada, yada like that. 

[00:30:29] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:30:30] Aaron: How have you, how have you… So, so you haven’t yet hit college campus yet or no, you have by now? 

[00:30:33] Donovan: Uh, I’ve been there but I’m not like enrolled. I have my classes set up but I’m not actually on campus.

[00:30:39] Donovan: I’ve been there to register for football games to see my brother, ’cause he went there as well. 

[00:30:43] Aaron: Oh, 

[00:30:43] Donovan: is he, did he play? No, no, no, no. Oh, okay, okay. I was just- This is an SEC team. We’re not having- … little Asian kids playing. That’s 

[00:30:54] Aaron: not happening. Um- 

[00:30:55] Donovan: Right, right. So I, I guess- He’s not a kicker, right? No. 

[00:30:59] Aaron: What, have you, have [00:31:00] you seen…

[00:31:00] Aaron: So, you know, I think there’s a There is truth that is coming out, as you said- For sure … about the psychiatric drugs, like what it’s really occurring, right? There’s a, there’s a DVD out there, Prescription for Violence. Yeah. That’s, that’s a big one that just came out recently. But like, what has been your experience?

[00:31:16] Aaron: Have you met, like, kids your age that have been on several drugs at once prescribed? Mm. And, and how, how has that experience been to see, like, man, the solutions that you got versus maybe solutions that someone else has, has gotten? 

[00:31:29] Donovan: Yeah. I see people who are on it, and it’s… What they’re trying to get is what we’re actually achieving in Dianetics and 

[00:31:39] Aaron: Scientology.

[00:31:39] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:40] Donovan: They’re looking for something that will handle their problems, and all it really does is it just makes them a lesser version of their, themselves. 

[00:31:49] Aaron: Yep. 

[00:31:49] Donovan: And you look at anybody you know who’s on psych drugs, I mean, my favorite, uh, artist, I just saw him, Kanye West. 

[00:31:56] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:57] Donovan: Ye now. 

[00:31:57] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:58] Donovan: He has [00:32:00] full points where he talks about when he was on psych drugs and his wife and his family literally sent doctors, and it’s called 5150 in you.

[00:32:09] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:09] Donovan: Where they bring someone in to determine if you’re mentally fit or not, or Baker Acting in Florida is basically what it is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And they involuntarily put you in a psychiatric hospital. And he leaked texts, I wanna say a year ago, of a doctor, doctor of his, shouldn’t be of his- Mm-hmm … who basically said, ’cause he was acting out, d- saying some things, which I’m sure people are aware of.

[00:32:32] Donovan: Mm. Not the smartest, but he was like, “I will put you, like will drug you so hard you’ll never see your kids again.” Wow. Or, “It’ll, it’ll never be the same.” 

[00:32:39] Brad: Wow. 

[00:32:39] Donovan: Wow. And he said that, and it’s this, I think it’s a common misconception that these people are well-intentioned, and L- L. Ron Hubbard actually talks about that.

[00:32:50] Donovan: At the top of the industry, your average psychiatrist, person going to school- Mm. Maybe they are. Maybe they think they’re trying to create a positive effect. Yeah. The top of the industry is not [00:33:00] well-intentioned. No. 

[00:33:00] Aaron: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

[00:33:00] Donovan: They’re there, they are intentionally creating harm and bad things to people.

[00:33:06] Donovan: They know they are. 

[00:33:07] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:08] Donovan: And yeah. 

[00:33:10] Brad: On the- Yeah … on, on the, on the Kanye West thing, we had, uh, we had Steven Ridley on recently. Yeah. And he, he explained something that I had never heard, I don’t, I think you’d probably never heard that either. Mm-mm. Where, how re- basically record labels will write into the contract that in the event of, so like basically the, the record label can direct the, the person who’s signing, like the artist’s mental and spiritual treatment.

[00:33:36] Brad: They can direct it. 

[00:33:38] Donovan: Yeah, I wasn’t su- I wasn’t aware of that. It’s not surprising, though. 

[00:33:41] Brad: Yeah, it’s in the contract. I mean, you look at 

[00:33:42] Donovan: any- 

[00:33:42] Brad: And Steven Ridley asked, “Can we just take this part out?” And they were like, “Absolutely not. It’s non-negotiable.” 

[00:33:47] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:33:48] Aaron: Nah, 

[00:33:48] Donovan: that’s crazy. And that just goes- Full control, right?

[00:33:50] Donovan: I mean- Yes You just 

[00:33:51] Aaron: control the artist. 

[00:33:52] Brad: It’s… Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:52] Donovan: And to give like- 

[00:33:53] Brad: Yeah … 

[00:33:53] Donovan: L. Ron Hubbard said that in 1967. 

[00:33:56] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:33:57] Donovan: This 60 years ago 

[00:33:59] Brad: Yeah [00:34:00] 

[00:34:00] Donovan: Like, you look at what he wrote, and I think I wanna take this opportunity, regardless of what you’ve heard about Scientology, if anything we are saying, anything anyone said on this show sounds even remotely interesting or possible, you have a problem, why not read a book?

[00:34:17] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:18] Donovan: What’s the worst thing that could happen if you just go 10, 20 bucks- Yeah … or you go to a library, you get a book, and you check it out for yourself. Don’t pay attention to what some person is saying in a documentary or something, just actually- 

[00:34:33] Brad: Mm-hmm … 

[00:34:33] Donovan: look at it. 

[00:34:35] Brad: Here’s the other thing, don’t even listen to us.

[00:34:36] Donovan: Yeah, don’t listen to me. Don’t 

[00:34:37] Brad: take our word for it. Don’t 

[00:34:37] Donovan: take our word. 

[00:34:38] Brad: Yeah. And if you, here’s the thing- Go get a 

[00:34:39] Donovan: book … 

[00:34:40] Brad: if you don’t like the book, you close it and put it down. You 

[00:34:42] Donovan: close it, you put it down. It’s not for you. 

[00:34:43] Brad: The book’s not gonna get you . 

[00:34:44] Donovan: Yeah. You 

[00:34:44] Aaron: know? You’re not gonna be, uh- 

[00:34:45] Donovan: Yeah. You’re not 

[00:34:46] Aaron: gonna 

[00:34:46] Donovan: be involuntarily detained.

[00:34:47] Donovan: It’s not gonna be chasing after… Yeah. Like, we’re not… You 

[00:34:49] Aaron: know what I 

[00:34:49] Donovan: mean? 

[00:34:49] Brad: Like, that’s, that’s- But if you take psych drugs, you might actually be involuntarily 

[00:34:51] Donovan: released. Yeah, no, 

[00:34:52] Aaron: absolutely. Yeah. Like, that, it’s, it’s a- For real … it’s very common. Yeah. 

[00:34:55] Donovan: And you look at many religions, Scientology’s one religion where they’re not [00:35:00] really forcing something down your throat.

[00:35:01] Donovan: There’s no impending heaven, hell, “This is gonna happen if you don’t do this.” They’re probably the most, like, “Nah, if you want it, you want it.” 

[00:35:10] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:11] Donovan: Like, have you ever seen someone say, “If you don’t do Dianetics, you’re gonna blah, blah, blah”? No. 

[00:35:16] Brad: Never. Nope. 

[00:35:17] Donovan: Like, I’ve heard people are like, “Ah, it’s too bad.”

[00:35:20] Donovan: Mm-hmm. “Maybe next time.” Like, maybe they’ll check it out again. 

[00:35:23] Aaron: And I- Yeah … and I think the, the, the best or the strongest, I mean, the, the most convincing, uh, Christians, Buddhists, of any religion are also not that way. 

[00:35:32] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:35:32] Aaron: Yeah. I think the people that are like, “Hey, if you don’t do this, you’re gonna burn in hell forever,” like- Yeah

[00:35:37] Aaron: there are people that do that. Those, I think, are, 

[00:35:38] Brad: are- Well, that’s 

[00:35:39] Aaron: how Charlie Kirk was. How, which, which way? 

[00:35:40] Brad: He was very much like, “Hey, look, this is what I believe.” 

[00:35:43] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:35:43] Brad: Yeah. “I respect your beliefs.” 

[00:35:44] Aaron: Correct. 

[00:35:45] Brad: You know? 

[00:35:45] Aaron: Yeah, so exactly, like, the guys that are really pushing really hard like that generally are like the crazies- Yeah

[00:35:51] Aaron: like the crazies on the street, like, “Do this,” and, and they’re not representative of true how religion is. I mean, like, 

[00:35:57] Donovan: it- Yeah. 

[00:35:58] Brad: Or the majority of that religion. [00:36:00] 

[00:36:00] Donovan: Interesting thing about that, I went to both nights of the Kanye concert. 

[00:36:03] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:03] Donovan: And there’s- 

[00:36:04] Brad: Oh, there were two nights? 

[00:36:05] Donovan: Yeah, Friday and Sunday. 

[00:36:06] Brad: Oh.

[00:36:06] Donovan: And there’s probably, about 20 feet apart, there’s a guy who was holding a huge sign screaming at everybody walking across about how they’re sinning and women shouldn’t dress like this, yada, yada. And then about 20 feet to his right, there’s someone in a Dianetics shirt handing out booklets, very friendly.

[00:36:24] Donovan: Ah. So- Ah … that’s not an attack on Christianity, but I think that just goes to show that, like, we’re the most, “If you want it, you want it.” 

[00:36:32] Brad: Yep. 

[00:36:33] Donovan: We’re not saying there’s some impending doom or something on you if you don’t take it. Like, we’re trying to help you. 

[00:36:40] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:36:40] Donovan: So I think that’s really what I mean by take everything we’ve said and the bad that people have said and just put it aside and just look for yourself.

[00:36:49] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:36:49] Donovan: Like, if all the good things you hear about it, and you give the benefit of the doubt, and you say, “If that was possible, would you want it?” Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you just go and you [00:37:00] actually seek it out. 

[00:37:01] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:37:02] Donovan: And I think more people need to do that. 

[00:37:04] Brad: Yeah. Absolutely. Agreed. 

[00:37:05] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:37:05] Brad: Agreed. Have you, uh, have you actually, um, like successfully…

[00:37:12] Brad: Like, have you, have you run into situations where, uh, like somebody’s interested in Scientology? Like, out in school or in life or anything yet? 

[00:37:19] Donovan: Uh, so Clearward Academy was a big football program, I’m sure you’re aware. 

[00:37:23] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:37:23] Donovan: We had, I mean, hundreds of Division One offers. We’ve sent guys to every school you can think of, and so I worked with the football team.

[00:37:30] Donovan: I would do, like, stats and film and stuff like that. 

[00:37:32] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:33] Donovan: And obviously, you know, all these football players, they’re coming here from all over the world, and they look up this school and the first thing they see outside of football is Scientology. 

[00:37:43] Aaron: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:44] Donovan: And so our head coach was a Scientologist, the director of football operations was, and so I- they would ask me questions, then I explain it, and they’re like, “Oh, that actually seems fine.”

[00:37:54] Donovan: Like, I was on something called the Purification Program, which is basically where you take vitamins, you take [00:38:00] niacin, and you essentially go in a sauna and you sweat out… It’s actually been tested. You can look it up on Gulf War veterans. 

[00:38:08] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:09] Donovan: And it’s been tested and found to be successful. And so I was on it, and you have this little blue bag.

[00:38:14] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:38:15] Donovan: And this one football player I was friends with asked me, like, “What’s that about?” And was just asking questions and questions. 

[00:38:21] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:38:22] Donovan: Super hardcore Christian, but it got to a point where he was, like, very respectful about it. Mm-hmm. And so I think that’s really, like you said about Charlie Kirk, that’s really the point we need to be in.

[00:38:32] Donovan: When communication stops happening, that’s when bad things happen, divorce, war. 

[00:38:36] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:37] Donovan: And so we need more just bipartisanship communication- Yeah … across everybody. 

[00:38:42] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:38:43] Donovan: And to like just set everything aside and just talk. 

[00:38:47] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:38:48] Aaron: Absolutely. 

[00:38:48] Brad: What’s like the idea with that? Like, your, you said your brother did business management, you’re gonna do finance.

[00:38:53] Brad: Yeah. Is there, is there kind of like a, uh, like do you see like a private equity play down [00:39:00] the line or like being able to do a big raise of money to like take on bigger pro- Like, what’s the, what’s- I think 

[00:39:04] Donovan: the main idea is really just Durable Slate. 

[00:39:07] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:39:07] Donovan: Like, we want to build it, ’cause I mean it’s a family business.

[00:39:10] Donovan: Like, the two primary owners, well, there’s three now. Mm. But two of them are my dad and my uncle. 

[00:39:17] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:17] Donovan: Mm-hmm. And so I love the idea, and the other guy, his name’s Gary, a great guy, also a Scientologist, and his kids are very motivated as well, and I love the idea of just having families at the forefront of business- 

[00:39:31] Brad: Mm

[00:39:32] Donovan: and just driving for success. 

[00:39:36] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:39:36] Donovan: And like that’s one thing that Dianetics and Scientology’s had, this like invalidation of myself and this idea of like, “Oh, I don’t know if I can do it,” eliminated. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Obviously, maybe there’s a little remnants, but like I can be at cause over it, I can control that, and think, like I spoke about my wins, and one of the things I said was, “I can be great and I will be [00:40:00] great.”

[00:40:00] Donovan: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:00] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:40:00] Donovan: Like, there’s no doubt about it. It’s going to happen. I just need to take the steps to get to it. 

[00:40:05] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:40:07] Donovan: And, 

[00:40:07] Aaron: and- And, and- Go 

[00:40:08] Brad: ahead … and you are great. 

[00:40:09] Donovan: Yes, and I am great. Let’s just put it that way. That’s one thing- 

[00:40:11] Aaron: Yeah … safe to keep in mind. One thing I’m curious of, I mean, I, I’ve, uh, I listen to a podcast called How I Built This, right?

[00:40:18] Aaron: It’s a very, it’s a, it’s a big podcast. 

[00:40:20] Brad: Dude, you love this podcast. This is the third 

[00:40:21] Aaron: time you’ve brought it up this year. I love this podcast. The reason I bring it up is because there’s a lot of people there who’ve made hundred million dollar companies- Sure … like multi-hundred million, billion dollar companies.

[00:40:30] Aaron: Uh, it’s very well done. But I would say a common thread when I listen to these guys, it’s a, I’ll just say a common theme that occurs- Yeah … and you haven’t yet had a chance to get to this age, but often a guy will go for a, a, a ma- a MBA. 

[00:40:43] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:40:43] Aaron: Right? Business, business degree. And year one, year or two, they’ll start their business y- like year zero, and by the time they’re what year one, year or two, it’s like, “Wow, this business is getting so big, and like I’m not…

[00:40:54] Aaron: This school has not helped me do the business,” and they end up quitting and not finishing school because this business is taking [00:41:00] off, and then they’re going and continuing that. 

[00:41:01] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:41:02] Aaron: And the most successful people in school have like gone and started to do the thing well before, and the school they’ve, they’ve found where it maybe doesn’t assist them- 

[00:41:11] Donovan: Yeah

[00:41:11] Aaron: in this other objective in they’ve been doing. And so I guess I’m, I’m, I’m looking at for you- 

[00:41:17] Donovan: Yeah … I 

[00:41:18] Aaron: mean, you could start working in the business right away. Oh, 100% 

[00:41:20] Donovan: could, yeah. 

[00:41:21] Aaron: Right? And, and so where does that- How do you put that into effect of like, do you think the best place to learn to run the business is gonna be in this school?

[00:41:33] Donovan: No, it won’t be. 

[00:41:33] Aaron: Right? I know that. So like how… I don’t know, walk me through your thought process 

[00:41:37] Donovan: of that. Yeah, yeah. Um, obviously I could go and I could start working tomorrow. Yep. I could choose to not go to school, but I think, one, like I said earlier, just getting all sorts of information and I- and ideas, especially the connections- Mm

[00:41:51] Donovan: that I’m going to get and bring in, and also, like AI. Like it’s 2026, AI is going to be at the forefront over the next [00:42:00] 5, 10, 15 years. 

[00:42:01] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:01] Donovan: And I think the people who choose to ignore it are gonna be the people that are left behind. And so UF is one of the most AI forward universities. I think an alum is a co-founder of NVIDIA.

[00:42:12] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:13] Donovan: And he- Oh, wow … just gave them $100 million a couple years ago for biggest supercomputer. 

[00:42:19] Brad: Mm. 

[00:42:19] Donovan: Like they have local governments who come to see the school because of how AI forward they are. 

[00:42:25] Brad: Yeah. Mm. 

[00:42:26] Donovan: And that’s one thing I really wanna be just passionate about and learn as full, as fully as I can, just how to use AI to the most of its benefit.

[00:42:36] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:42:38] Donovan: And so that’s… Is that gonna be through the people you meet there doing AI or the AI class? ‘Cause I’m ass- I don’t know. Classes, people, projects, 

[00:42:45] Brad: practical or not. I’m gonna predict it’s probably gonna be more people- Probably … and like activities outside of the classroom. Yeah. 

[00:42:50] Donovan: Probably, 

[00:42:50] Brad: yeah. ‘Cause I’m think- I’m thinking back to like certain like classes that…

[00:42:53] Brad: Now I had kind of an, a interesting… I went to a military school- Sure … for my college. You went to West Point, right? So, yeah. So [00:43:00] like- Good school … there’s, there’s some things where there where it’s like, hey, you actually have to understand how to apply this- Yeah … otherwise you’re gonna get people killed.

[00:43:05] Brad: Yeah. That’s like literally asset communication. Yeah, for sure. But there was still tons of academic stuff where I’m thinking about like, for example, I was thinking back to like my statistics class and I’m like, my use of that statistics today is like zero. 

[00:43:18] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:43:18] Brad: But I track 400, what we call statistics, in my company every week- Yeah

[00:43:23] Brad: and use the hell out of a different statistics technology that actually has a result it’s looking to get. Yes. So I was, I was like casting myself back to how that was in the classroom, and I was thinking about what you’re saying and I’m like, yeah, that, that’s gonna be like where- Where the guy, the co-founder of NVIDIA is doing a thing where he brings in 30 students and you need to get yourself on that.

[00:43:41] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:43:42] Brad: You know what I mean? That- For sure … like that actually makes a lot of sense to me. Inner level, yeah. That makes total sense. 

[00:43:45] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:43:46] Brad: Of like how do you get a connection to the guy at NVIDIA or to- Yes … the pr- like a- and yeah. And the other, the other interesting thing that I’ve noticed is, um, people under-utilize their [00:44:00] leverage when they’re interviewing for jobs.

[00:44:01] Donovan: Mm, 

[00:44:02] Brad: yeah. Like even if you’re not intending on taking a job- 

[00:44:04] Donovan: For sure … 

[00:44:04] Brad: you can actually get access to some crazy high-level businesspeople- 

[00:44:09] Donovan: Yeah … 

[00:44:09] Brad: just by interviewing at their company. Like literally actually put in a communication line with them. 

[00:44:13] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:44:13] Brad: I, like that’s one thing that I think people like totally miss the boat on when they’re coming out of college is they have so much access- 

[00:44:18] Donovan: Yeah

[00:44:19] Brad: at the end of college, and that door kind of like shuts- Yeah … at a certain point in time. After a 

[00:44:23] Donovan: little 

[00:44:24] Aaron: bit, yeah. 

[00:44:24] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:44:25] Aaron: Once you’re a grown man. 

[00:44:27] Brad: I mean- No … you just gotta do it different.

[00:44:32] Aaron: Okay. So, okay, so do you have like, again, between her family and everyone, what is gonna be your role? Like you’re gonna… Did you plan to finish all school and then start or half/half or what are you like, what’s your plan? 

[00:44:44] Donovan: Yeah. So I’ve been working like summers whenever, ’cause the headquarters of the company is based in Columbus.

[00:44:49] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:50] Donovan: So whenever I’m up there, I’ve been doing nothing like crazy yet, but just getting to learn a little bit about what we do, the business, and then once I’m done with school, it’ll be full-time go in [00:45:00] and do that. But I’ll probably do like an internship up there, my brother did the same thing, and shadow each of like the department heads- 

[00:45:07] Brad: Mm-hmm

[00:45:07] Donovan: of each area and sector of the company and see like what is it they do. How does this work? Why does this work? 

[00:45:13] Brad: Oh. 

[00:45:13] Donovan: How do you keep this going? Stuff like that. 

[00:45:16] Brad: Yeah. Have you been on a roof yet? 

[00:45:18] Donovan: I’ve… Not for that. I mean, I’ve been on roofs. 

[00:45:20] Brad: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:45:21] Donovan: That’s one thing, I’m not scared of heights. You 

[00:45:22] Brad: haven’t been on a slate roof yet, though?

[00:45:24] Donovan: Uh- 

[00:45:25] Brad: Or- 

[00:45:26] Donovan: Maybe I have. 

[00:45:27] Brad: Yeah? 

[00:45:27] Donovan: Yeah. Well, I’ve been on, uh, a roof in Columbus, but not like for working. Okay. Just like getting on the roof. Yeah. Just for fun. Yeah. 

[00:45:35] Aaron: Yeah, I, I know, I think that a lot of people, successful businesspeople today, um, in general, have kids that sort of don’t follow the path of the parents.

[00:45:47] Aaron: Yeah. Mm. I think that’s, it’s, it’s very common, right? Like I think- Super common … to go back, I don’t know, 300 years ago, there was always, okay, there was a, the guy and like carpenter, carpenter, car- like it was generations. Yeah. Bro, you were named- Farmer, farmer, farmer … 

[00:45:57] Brad: you were named after your job. 

[00:45:59] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah, correct.

[00:45:59] Aaron: Yeah, [00:46:00] yeah, correct. Correct. Exactly. That’s where the name Carpenter comes from. Yeah. That’s right. That’s true. That’s true. So it was like that was a trend that’s happening a lot and, and I know, uh, uh, some people, uh, maybe in the e-commerce industry or wherever- Sure … and like they try to get their kids to like follow their footsteps a- a- and they’ve been unsuccessful.

[00:46:17] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:46:18] Aaron: What do you think in your family has contributed to you wanting to like help out your parents- What a great question … help out the family? 

[00:46:25] Donovan: Yeah. Um- That is 

[00:46:26] Aaron: different from o- 

[00:46:27] Donovan: It is. Yeah I don’t know, I guess the idea of striving for success and doing it with family is such a great thing. Like, one, I’ve seen that he’s already done it with his brother, and if both me and my brother are interested, why not go for it?

[00:46:44] Donovan: Mm-hmm. Take it to the next level. Strive for that top line success. And so I don’t know. I don’t see the point in going for something else when, one, I love buildings. Mm. Ever since I was young, I, I’ve loved, just been super interested with, like, my favorite toy, I don’t know if you [00:47:00] know it, like Magna-Tiles?

[00:47:01] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:03] Donovan: Take these, like, things and build- Oh, I know about Magna-Tiles. I love Magna-Tiles. All 

[00:47:05] Brad: over 

[00:47:05] Donovan: the house. Oh my God, so good. Um, so yeah, I don’t know, like, why would I go for something else, one, when this opportunity’s there and I’m interested in it? 

[00:47:16] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:47:17] Donovan: Like, it’s not like I’m going into something and I have no interest in it.

[00:47:19] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:47:20] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:47:20] Donovan: Yeah. It’s such a great opportunity and yeah, interested. 

[00:47:24] Brad: Okay, college question. 

[00:47:26] Donovan: Sure. 

[00:47:27] Brad: What is your game plan for handling the… Hmm, sure, and, and I’m actually interested in your, in your, like, real take on this- Yeah … and, like, what, like h- like if you’ve actually thought, thought about it, ’cause you had to have thought about it.

[00:47:40] Brad: But, like, the way I would describe a college campus, the way that I’ve witnessed it, outside of the school that I went to, ’cause it’s very rigid there, but- 

[00:47:48] Donovan: Yeah … 

[00:47:48] Brad: it’s basically debauchery is the, is kind of the, the theme. 

[00:47:53] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:47:53] Brad: Right? Um, how, what’s, what are your thoughts and kind of, like, your game plan? And by that, but just to 

[00:47:58] Aaron: clarify, I mean, you’re talking about, [00:48:00] like- 

[00:48:00] Brad: Parties

[00:48:00] Brad: parties- Drugs … yeah, yeah, yeah … 

[00:48:02] Aaron: alcohol. Yeah, yeah, yeah, everything. 

[00:48:02] Brad: Sex. Like, just insanity. Yeah. You know? Um, what’s, like, what, have you thought about that? Yeah, I mean- ‘Cause you’re a very straight-laced- Yeah … you’re just fricking straight arrow, you know? 

[00:48:12] Donovan: Yeah, I mean, UF is, I mean, it’s an SEC school. It’s one of the biggest party schools- Uh-huh

[00:48:18] Donovan: in the state, in the country. 

[00:48:19] Brad: Uh-huh. 

[00:48:19] Donovan: It’s gonna be there. Like top three. Yeah. 

[00:48:21] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:48:21] Donovan: Tulane, FSU, UF, yeah. Like, it, it’s gonna be there. 

[00:48:23] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:48:24] Donovan: It’s not really something you can, like, shift or avoid. I think it’s just- I don’t know, making friends, but taking it to the point where, like, you can still have fun without engaging past your own personal integrity.

[00:48:38] Aaron: Mm. Mm. 

[00:48:39] Donovan: So I think whatever you set as a individual, as a spiritual being, what you think is right for you, it’s really just up to you to keep that. 

[00:48:48] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:48:49] Donovan: Like, that stuff is going to be there. How are you going to manage it? How am I gonna manage it? And so, like, yes, I can have fun, but I can also make sure that I’m [00:49:00] staying true to myself and not going past anything I wouldn’t consider moral or right.

[00:49:05] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:49:06] Aaron: Yeah. Have you been around drug use? Like physically in front of you seeing pot or this or anything 

[00:49:11] Donovan: like- I mean, weed, yeah. It, it happens. It’s very… I mean, it’s legal- It is 

[00:49:15] Brad: so common … 

[00:49:16] Donovan: recreational, I think, 38 states. It’ll probably pass in Florida in a couple years at this point. It’s a matter of- 

[00:49:23] Brad: Mm-hmm

[00:49:23] Donovan: when, not if. Weed’s very common. Um, I mean, like New York, areas like that, like fentanyl, the lean, people just on the street and they’re just fully, like, leaned down. 

[00:49:36] Brad: Mm. 

[00:49:36] Donovan: Um, nothing crazy. 

[00:49:39] Brad: Is that a fentanyl thing- Yeah … where they’re, where they’re, like, hunched over? 

[00:49:42] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:49:42] Brad: Really? 

[00:49:42] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:49:43] Brad: Oh, wow. I actually didn’t know.

[00:49:44] Brad: Did you know 

[00:49:46] Donovan: that? I thought it was something else. I think lean, the, the one, that song… There’s a big song that talks- Well- … about lean 

[00:49:50] Aaron: l- but, but I thought- Well, leans are a drink … lean was something else. 

[00:49:52] Donovan: Yeah. Well, 

[00:49:52] Aaron: yeah, yeah. You’re exactly correct. Yeah. 

[00:49:53] Brad: He’s talking about a physical attribute that somebody gets.

[00:49:55] Brad: Lean’s 

[00:49:55] Donovan: cough syrup and, like, Sprite. 

[00:49:57] Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:49:58] Donovan: Oh. So, I mean, [00:50:00] growing up, like, I’ll admit it, a lot of the Scientologist kids growing up here, they’re very sheltered, but my parents have done a great job at… I mean, I’m not saying, like, they’re throwing me out into, like- … South St. Pete, like the streets of this, but, like, culturally, like- Just like 

[00:50:14] Brad: first Friday in St.

[00:50:15] Donovan: Pete, drop you off … just like, yeah, just drop me off Have fun, make friends … yeah, but like- No, I’m just 

[00:50:18] Brad: kidding … 

[00:50:18] Donovan: going to see different places and seeing things and not placing me in a bubble. 

[00:50:24] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm. 

[00:50:25] Donovan: I mean, growing up like this, I’m going to be in a bubble, but it’s about how much can you eliminate that and see cultures.

[00:50:33] Donovan: Like, I’ll talk to kids and they’re like… I was talking to someone the other day and they’re like, “Oh my God, frats,” and all that. I’m like, “Yeah, they’re there.” 

[00:50:41] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:50:41] Donovan: It’s just like, how do you raise your tolerance? And, like, my dad talks about that a lot, of like raising your tolerance for everything you do and everything that you’re in.

[00:50:50] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:50:51] Donovan: It’s like if you live in a life where- You can’t tolerate anything, your life’s gonna be pretty miserable. 

[00:50:57] Brad: Yes. Mm-hmm. That’s right. 

[00:50:58] Donovan: Like, that’s how [00:51:00] old people, he and I were just talking about that, that’s how old people start to get old, is they have very low tolerance of anything. 

[00:51:08] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:51:09] Donovan: Mm-hmm. Just randomity, random things that happen, they can’t accept that.

[00:51:14] Donovan: Yeah. And so they 

[00:51:14] Brad: keep it where- Like the phone, the phone rings and they’re like- Like, “

[00:51:16] Donovan: Ah, damn” … “What the hell?” 

[00:51:17] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:51:18] Donovan: Or like there’s someone walking, like the common one, someone walk- walking on their lawn, they’re like, “Ah, get off my lawn.” 

[00:51:23] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:51:23] Donovan: Just like the inability to accept random things happening. Mm-hmm.

[00:51:28] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:51:29] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:51:31] Brad: Dude. So, um, in, like, in terms of the, the, the, like, I guess getting experience but also, like, you and your family are very ethical people. Yes. Um, when you say, like, you weren’t sheltered, what do, what do you feel like a sheltered kid’s life would be like and yours in terms of like the- Yeah … just so, so I get, like, the differences.

[00:51:57] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:51:57] Donovan: Um, I mean, I’ve- 

[00:51:58] Brad: I’m starting to worry I might have been [00:52:00] sheltered. No, I’m just kidding. 

[00:52:00] Donovan: No, I’ve seen… I’m sure, like, you look at some of the schools around here, and you see some of the kids, which you might see at Clearwater Academy, and you talk to them, and they’re not very… They’re almost, how do I put it?

[00:52:15] Donovan: Not saying this is Clearwater Academy kids, but a lot of kids are just very roped, and they’re not like, like someone’s pulling the strings, and they see certain things that maybe they don’t like, and they have such a back-off reaction to, and they can’t, like I said, they can’t tolerate things. Mm-hmm. And, like, the example I gave was frats and alcohol, and some people will see it like, sure, is it the most ethical?

[00:52:40] Donovan: No. But, like, it’s about just tolerating it and maybe going in a different direction. 

[00:52:45] Brad: Mm. 

[00:52:45] Donovan: But I think sheltered, bubbled kids will look at that and freak out, or they’ll majorly judge someone for- 

[00:52:51] Brad: To, to clarify what you mean, when you say tolerate, you mean like acknowledge that it’s there. 

[00:52:55] Donovan: Yes. 

[00:52:56] Brad: You don’t even need to necessarily participate in it.

[00:52:57] Brad: Yeah. But it’s there. They’re doing their thing. 

[00:52:58] Donovan: It’s there. They’re doing their thing. 

[00:52:59] Brad: You don’t need to, like, [00:53:00] freak out. 

[00:53:00] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:53:01] Brad: Just go and do your thing. 

[00:53:01] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:53:02] Brad: Okay, yeah. That makes sense. Yes. Meaning, 

[00:53:03] Aaron: I, I mean, the way 

[00:53:04] Donovan: I think about it is like, for example- I mean, I’m not saying tolerate, but like this is great.

[00:53:06] Donovan: I’m a big fan. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just like allowing it to be there. 

[00:53:09] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:53:10] Aaron: Yeah, like for example, the, a, a difference would be, hey, in this school there’s gonna be drinking. I can never go to that school. Like, obviously that would be- True … an extreme. 

[00:53:19] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:53:19] Aaron: Right? Because- Well, bring- … it’s gonna happen. We’re, we’re on planet 

[00:53:21] Brad: Earth, bro

[00:53:21] Brad: bring, bring, bringing me up. Yeah. Bringing me up. BYU. BYU. Uh, yeah. What 

[00:53:25] Donovan: is that? I don’t know what that is. BYU and Liberty, um, 

[00:53:27] Brad: were- I know it’s the Mormon schools. 

[00:53:28] Donovan: Oh. They have, especially football players, you have- No, no 

[00:53:30] Brad: alcohol … 

[00:53:31] Donovan: you have to sign a, a pledge. Like, there was, their quarterback a year ago got kicked off the team and suspended because, like, no alcohol, no premarital sex, nothing like that.

[00:53:43] Brad: No premarital sex. 

[00:53:44] Aaron: Oh, so if you do that, you’re out of the team? 

[00:53:46] Donovan: And this guy got a rape accusation, and he was like, “I didn’t do it,” but it was premarital sex, and they instantly were like, “Cut. Six games suspend… Or six game suspension,” and suspended from the school. 

[00:53:59] Aaron: Wow. [00:54:00] 

[00:54:00] Donovan: Well, listen, I, I think it… Okay. Uh, my-

[00:54:02] Donovan: my own 

[00:54:03] Aaron: opinion. If the world practiced having to be married- 

[00:54:09] Brad: Yeah … 

[00:54:09] Aaron: before engaging in intercourse- It would be good … I think it would be a much better place. It would be good. I mean, and, and with my wife now, we did, we did it that way. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, it was much better. 

[00:54:20] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:54:21] Aaron: You know what I mean? Like, are you…

[00:54:22] Aaron: You know, it’s kind of like the discipline thing. I know we talk about discipline here, but like- It’s the, the instant gratification that you’re talking about, Brad. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yes, good, it’s gonna be good for a little bit. 

[00:54:32] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:54:32] Aaron: Okay. But, like, what if you’re attracted j- just the flesh, and then you’re actually, life, your direction’s not going where you wanna go.

[00:54:40] Aaron: Yeah. You’re not building a family, you’re not doing anything for the generation, you’re not gonna settle down. Maybe there’s no loyalty there. It’s all about just the f- the physical thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that physical thing, if they’re that free with you, could be free with anyone. 

[00:54:53] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:54:54] Aaron: So the truth is, it’s like you’re gonna expect one thing with you, and then a different thing with other people.

[00:54:57] Aaron: So I’m just saying I, I don’t know if [00:55:00] that’s all that bad. Yeah. This whole whatever BYU thing. I don’t know. But whatever. I don’t know. Just like- Yeah. 

[00:55:05] Brad: Yeah, no, I… Like, honestly, this is probably gonna sound weird co- like, coming from me, but I actually agree. 

[00:55:12] Aaron: Yeah. It’s 

[00:55:12] Brad: coming from you. I, I actually agree. I actually agree.

[00:55:15] Brad: I mean, I’m like, you know, ’cause like I, like my, that was not the way that, that my wife and I did it. Right. But, you know, thinking back on it, I’m like, yeah, if, if there’s no… Like, if you’re not having sex before marriage, you really have to actually like the person you’re with- … and actually really align with them outside of the bed.

[00:55:33] Brad: Like, it, it is a thi- Like, it actually makes- 100% … total, total sense. I mean, you know. From, you know. It’s, uh… I mean, you’re, you’re a young man. 

[00:55:43] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:55:43] Brad: It’s gonna, it’s g- it’s coming, it’s coming right around the corner. 

[00:55:45] Aaron: We won’t ask you for your experiences for now- … uh, on this show. Um, but anyway. So, um-

[00:55:56] Donovan: H- okay, good. I don’t know what to say. 

[00:55:58] Aaron: I don’t know what to say. All right, one, one [00:56:00] thing I wanna- I think we’re next. Yeah … one thing I wanna, one thing I wanna, I do wanna get into- Yeah … um, is what was, like, the moment that you really realized like, like, man, this, this thing, Scientology, like- 

[00:56:09] Donovan: Works? Yes. Yeah. 

[00:56:11] Brad: Oh, good question.

[00:56:11] Donovan: Um, the purification program I was talking about, so I was obviously, I was, I think I was 13 when I did it. I’m not out here doing, like, heroin. I don’t have major drug use. But, you know, little things like, uh, chlorine- 

[00:56:27] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:27] Donovan: Mm … sunburns, things like that, and I was on probably like day 12, and I got out, and I’m looking at myself, and I was like, “Holy , I’m so red.”

[00:56:38] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:38] Donovan: Yeah. Like, I’m just like, “I, I have a sunburn. Like, I’m super itchy. Like, what is happening?” And I’m sure people will claim, “Ah, placebo effect,” whatever. It isn’t. Like I said, you can look online. There was fully a testing with the Gulf War veterans, and they found that it worked. 

[00:56:56] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:56:56] Donovan: Like, fully. I, 

[00:56:58] Brad: I, I had a 

[00:56:59] Aaron: sand experience.

[00:56:59] Aaron: And the [00:57:00] things will come out of the body. Yeah. The things will come out of the… I mean, like- Yeah … 

[00:57:01] Donovan: those 

[00:57:01] Aaron: are towels. 

[00:57:01] Donovan: Like, a purple towel that I get- I mean, I’ve heard, I’ve heard experiences. People have, like, worked in factories, they have, like, black oozing out of their, like, arms and legs- 

[00:57:08] Brad: Mm-hmm … 

[00:57:08] Donovan: from working with chemicals like that.

[00:57:11] Brad: Yeah, so when I went… Just to, to give more context here. So the, the purification program, it’s a, it’s a sauna and vitamins program- Yes … right, with a, with a little bit of exercise- 

[00:57:21] Donovan: Yeah … 

[00:57:21] Brad: just to, to get the blood flowing. Get the blood 

[00:57:22] Donovan: flowing. 

[00:57:23] Brad: That’s right. And, um, you… Like, I’ll, I know that when I did it, I, I had a little bit of drug use earlier in life- Sure

[00:57:31] Brad: but not a crazy amount. 

[00:57:32] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:57:32] Brad: Um, but I did, I did experience, um… There were certain days where I could smell. Obviously, there’s not gonna be any marijuana in a Church of Scientology. 

[00:57:42] Donovan: No, you’re not doing 

[00:57:43] Brad: that. I’m in a sauna inside a Church of Scientology, and I’m smelling marijuana, and I’m like- 

[00:57:46] Donovan: Honestly, in any sauna

[00:57:48] Donovan: I’m 

[00:57:48] Brad: like, “Huh.” 

[00:57:49] Donovan: In any… You shouldn’t be- In 

[00:57:51] Brad: any sauna … you shouldn’t be lighting up in any sauna. Yeah, of course, yeah. Don’t be doing that. And I’m like, I’m like, I’m like sm- I’m like- It’s nasty … “I smell marijuana.” It’s, because it was coming out of my pores. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s like this sounds like [00:58:00] whatever, but it’s the, it’s the truth.

[00:58:01] Brad: Yeah. It’s literally what, what was… Uh, yeah, and then on the sunburn thing, I think this is a thing that people don’t talk about enough, but the sunburn, I would get red, and I, I don’t know if you experienced this, but I would have- Odd pictures of like- … tan lines … 

[00:58:11] Donovan: fully… Yeah. 

[00:58:12] Brad: But your… It goes, like, where you actually got burnt.

[00:58:15] Donovan: Yeah. Hmm. 

[00:58:15] Brad: Like, I could… Like, it’s, it was literally like, like I have a little bit of a farmer’s tan. I’m pretty white above my- Yeah. And I would be like, here down would be red, and here to up would not be. 

[00:58:24] Donovan: Yeah. Wow. 

[00:58:25] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. It- 

[00:58:26] Donovan: I’d see people who were like- 

[00:58:27] Brad: Crazy … a 

[00:58:28] Donovan: lot of alcohol in college, and they’re like s- next to me.

[00:58:31] Donovan: They’re super, like, out of it, and they’re just- Mm-hmm … and you can see, and once it- Like waves off, comes off them, they’re more alert and bright than ever. 

[00:58:40] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:58:41] Donovan: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:41] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:58:41] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:58:42] Brad: The other tan thing, which was, which was even more intense, is I swam for a long time competitively, and I would wear a Speedo. I kid you not, I literally one time, like, had sunburn, kind of like c- like I got all flush and stuff.

[00:58:54] Brad: I don’t… I, I personally don’t understand how this… I don’t know the mechanics of it. I just know- … that I could [00:59:00] feel, like, the heat of, of the skin and stuff. But literally I had a Speedo tan line one day after, after being in the sauna during my Purif. Eh, dude, it happened. It actually happened. It sounds crazy, but- Yeah.

[00:59:10] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:59:10] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:59:11] Donovan: Right hand on the Bible, whatever. I ser- These things happened. 

[00:59:13] Brad: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:59:13] Donovan: Yeah. 

[00:59:15] Brad: Fun. 

[00:59:15] Donovan: Yeah. Which speaking of, I actually brought, uh, pre-Purif and post-attesting to the state of clear OCAs. 

[00:59:23] Brad: Oh, 

[00:59:23] Donovan: really? Okay, okay. Just to show- 

[00:59:24] Brad: Yeah … 

[00:59:25] Donovan: to show the difference. Does it say it’s Oxford Capacity Analysis? Yeah.

[00:59:26] Donovan: That is a personality test. 

[00:59:28] Aaron: So basically that’s the 

[00:59:30] Donovan: pre-Purif, obviously it’ll show you. Oh, dude. And it’s post. 

[00:59:33] Aaron: So it’s basically- 

[00:59:34] Donovan: We’ll try to put- It stands for Oxford Capacity Analysis. This is, this is the 

[00:59:35] Aaron: purple one. Uh, this is, this is an invention right here, this purple. I’ve never seen a purple one. Oh, no, 

[00:59:40] Donovan: I printed it.

[00:59:40] Donovan: I took a picture. 

[00:59:41] Aaron: That’s… Oh, okay, okay, okay. And so I didn’t have the- That’s fine … OG one. So you can see this. So guys, so let’s, let’s explain this. So we’ll talk about this one. Yeah. Um, and we’ll talk about this is the before, right? And then this is the after, okay? So, um- What, what I wanna- Let me see that, let me see that, let me see

[00:59:57] Aaron: like, I, I think we, I’ll, I’ll go [01:00:00] into a little bit of the, of these pieces- I didn’t know it was 

[01:00:01] Donovan: two-page 

[01:00:02] Aaron: activist … I’m gonna, I’m gonna go into it just briefly, right? But this personality test does go over a few things here, and by the way, you could take the personality test and see where you’re at, uh, at any time.

[01:00:09] Aaron: Completely free. Oca.scientology.org. Okay. Um, yeah. I 

[01:00:13] Donovan: didn’t 

[01:00:14] Aaron: know. So, so, so check this out. It goes on 10 points. The top is stable, happy, composed, certainty, active, aggressive, responsible, correct estimation, appreciative, and calm level. And then the bottom, unstable, dispersed, depressed, nervous, uncertainty, inactive, inhibited, irresponsible, critical, lack of accord, and withdrawn.

[01:00:33] Aaron: So here you see on these different points, and I w- I, I wish I had mine. I don’t have mine. Um- 

[01:00:37] Brad: I have mine … 

[01:00:38] Aaron: but yeah, I, I- 

[01:00:39] Brad: Your first one, you’re saying? 

[01:00:41] Aaron: Yeah. 

[01:00:41] Brad: Oh, I have mine. 

[01:00:42] Aaron: You do? Nice. Yeah. This, this, this, by the way- Oh, it’s, mine is bad … you, you can tell this guy grew up in Scientology with this thing. This is like, this test is incredible.

[01:00:49] Aaron: Yeah, it is. Like, I, I, this is- I’m like, 

[01:00:50] Brad: that kinda looks something like mine now. 

[01:00:52] Aaron: This is… I mean, this is, like, incredible. Like, I will say, when I did mine, it was not even close to anything like that. Um, I was way [01:01:00] at the bottom. I remember my, my lowest point was happiness at negative 78. But sorry. Wow. So, um, so we’ll see these numbers and, and, I mean, we’ll see this thing.

[01:01:07] Aaron: We’ll, we’ll show it on the, on the, on the screen. We already did. But why don’t you talk to me, and, and you mentioned the state of clear. So state of clear, right? Uh- Yeah … in the book Dianetics- Yeah … talks about it. Um, but it is the reactive mind- Yes … and getting rid of your own reactive mind. Yeah. Uh- Yeah

[01:01:19] Aaron: clearing out those barriers that are stopping you. And so when you see these tests, right, like, what do you think is the difference of yourself, right? There’s one thing the test says- For sure … but what about you? Like, what kind of difference could you say that you experienced going through this journey on the bridge?

[01:01:34] Donovan: Yeah. I’m definitely, I mean, again, all the points are higher. Mm-hmm. So I’m, I’m definitely, really all of them, like h- more happy, more stable, but very certain in what I do. Like, I don’t look at things and go back and forth about them a lot, and I can just make a decision when I want to. 

[01:01:54] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:01:54] Donovan: I can be very responsible, which I think that’s one of my favorite things about Scientology [01:02:00] is the viewpoint of cause and effect.

[01:02:03] Donovan: You’re not looking at, like, okay, everything is up to God or something like that. If you think that, perfectly fine, but, like, there’s a viewpoint where I am what is causing what happens. 

[01:02:15] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:02:16] Donovan: Like, I can look at something, and if I want it to be that way, it’ll be that way. If I don’t, it doesn’t have to be.

[01:02:22] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:22] Donovan: And that every decision, everything that happens, there is something that is the cause point of it and something that is the effect point. 

[01:02:29] Aaron: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:30] Donovan: And it really just shifts your viewpoint and puts you in a way where you can control how things work, how you think, how life is for you. And yeah, just really each point I would say on here has been improved some way or another throughout the bridge so far.

[01:02:50] Brad: Yeah. That’s awesome. 

[01:02:51] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:02:52] Brad: The, the thing that I… So when I, when I took my first OCA- Yeah … which is what this, we abbreviate this test Oxford [01:03:00] Capacity Anal- Yeah. We abbreviate it down to OCA. Uh, my biggest kind of like takeaway from it was, and I think a lot of Scientologists th- like kind of take this for granted once they’ve taken, you know, at this point I’ve probably taken 15, 20.

[01:03:17] Brad: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You know, probably more for you, probably taken more OCAs than I have. 

[01:03:19] Donovan: Yeah, I was- But- Honestly, I love testing. I was taking it- Yeah … after each point. Each action I was finishing, and some of them super quick, and I was like- Yeah … oh wow, it went up. Yeah, 

[01:03:26] Brad: yeah. 

[01:03:27] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:03:28] Brad: So the, the first thing that I noticed is I was like, oh my gosh, there’s a, there’s a plus and minus related to a personality.

[01:03:36] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:03:37] Brad: And I was like, oh my gosh. I looked across the top of it and I’m like, okay, stable, happy, composed, certain, active, aggressive, responsible, uh, which is being causative. Yeah. Correct estimation, appreciative, and high, you know, communication level being high or low. I’m like, man, yeah, I want all those to be high.

[01:03:53] Brad: And I was like, oh my gosh, these people, m- meaning Scientologists, understand what I f- have felt is [01:04:00] true- Yeah … which is that there is an actual ideal way to be. 

[01:04:03] Donovan: Yes. ‘

[01:04:04] Brad: Cause there’s other personality tests I had taken where it’s like- You’re a- … we just appreciate you for who you are … caring person. Yeah. You’re a- You’re detail-oriented.

[01:04:11] Brad: And I’m like- 

[01:04:11] Donovan: But this is like, there are 10 points. Yeah. This is where you lie. You take 200 questions. 

[01:04:17] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:17] Donovan: This is where you lie on each of them, and then you can go over it with someone and see- 

[01:04:22] Brad: And, and where you lie by your own assessment. 

[01:04:25] Donovan: Yes. Yes. It is 

[01:04:26] Brad: not- This is how you feel about you. 

[01:04:27] Donovan: Yes. 

[01:04:28] Brad: It’s not how somebody else feels about 

[01:04:28] Donovan: you.

[01:04:28] Donovan: This is not someone… That’s another thing, so many things about Scientology, so great. 

[01:04:32] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:04:32] Donovan: This idea of, we call it evaluation. Mm-hmm. Nobody in Scientology, I can promise this, is ever going to tell you how you should feel, how you feel, what you should think, what you think. Scientology’s literally up to you to determine that.

[01:04:50] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:50] Donovan: Like when you go in for auditing, which is like Scientology counseling- They’re never going like, “Okay, this is what’s wrong with you. This is…” It’s asking [01:05:00] questions, and you have to go and find an answer or a thing that feels right to you. 

[01:05:05] Brad: Yep. 

[01:05:06] Donovan: But you’re never gonna have someone tell you, “Oh, you’re so unhappy.”

[01:05:11] Brad: Yep. “

[01:05:12] Donovan: That’s so horrible. Get out of…” Like, that’s never gonna happen. 

[01:05:14] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:15] Donovan: They will take this… They’ll, like, go over this with you and say, “This course is good for this. You can increase this and feel more responsible by taking X, Y, and Z.” 

[01:05:28] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:05:28] Donovan: And it’s… Again, just check it out for yourself. 

[01:05:31] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:05:31] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:05:31] Brad: 100%. On my first one, happy was, like, I had like negative- Oh, wow

[01:05:36] Brad: 60 or 70 or something like that. Yeah. And, and, uh, the lady looked at it and she’s like, “It seems like you don’t feel very happy. Is that-” “Is that right?” Yeah. And I w- the funny thing is, I acted like I was happy all the time. Yeah. Yeah. All the time. And- 

[01:05:50] Donovan: But it, it switched. 

[01:05:51] Brad: Huh? 

[01:05:52] Donovan: It, like it switched for you and you realized.

[01:05:53] Donovan: You’re like, “Holy .” 

[01:05:55] Brad: The whole time I knew I wasn’t happy. 

[01:05:56] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:05:57] Brad: I was like, “How do they know this?” Yeah. Hmm. I was like, “How the hell [01:06:00] do they know?” Hmm. 

[01:06:00] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:06:01] Brad: You know? I was like, “I don’t feel like I gave that away on the test.” Yeah. I just answered the 

[01:06:05] Aaron: questions. Isn’t it? Yeah, it’s crazy, right? Yeah. ‘Cause as you’re taking the test, you learn a 

[01:06:09] Donovan: little bit- 

[01:06:09] Aaron: It’s very…

[01:06:09] Aaron: Yeah … because- Yeah … 

[01:06:10] Donovan: the first time I’m like, “Wait, huh? Huh? Okay.” There’s some things where like, “What does this mean?” “Are you a slow eater?” 

[01:06:15] Brad: Like 

[01:06:15] Aaron: Yeah. Some interesting questions. 

[01:06:17] Donovan: It’s like, do you- Yeah … not verbatim, but, like, in regards to, like, activity, do you, I don’t know, not get much done and then do a very quick spurt of activity.

[01:06:26] Donovan: Like, it’s things where you get to answer for yourself how you think. 

[01:06:30] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:06:30] Donovan: Yep. 

[01:06:30] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:06:31] Donovan: And the graph will reflect that however- Yeah … you answer. 

[01:06:34] Brad: Yeah. One, one other thing that I find super interesting here is your IQ. Yes. So there is, there is an IQ test. Oh, what is your IQ? 

[01:06:40] Donovan: 150. 

[01:06:41] Brad: Went, went up from w- started at 133 and went up- Damn

[01:06:44] Brad: to 150. 

[01:06:45] Donovan: Yes. 

[01:06:45] Brad: So this is another thing where, uh, people have so much false information like a crazy- Yeah … amount. They… It’s like there’s this idea that IQ is, like, an inborn thing. Like, you’re born with a certain IQ, and that’s your IQ forever. 

[01:06:57] Donovan: No, it’s really education and what you [01:07:00] learn will increase your IQ.

[01:07:02] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. And- 

[01:07:03] Donovan: Like, a two-year-old does not have the same IQ as when he’s 35. 

[01:07:06] Brad: Yeah, that’s right. 

[01:07:07] Donovan: Just doesn’t. 

[01:07:08] Brad: Yeah. And so this is something that L. Ron Hubbard started writing about in the book Dianetics, is that, hey, by doing this spiritual counseling, you know, the, the Dianetics stuff, and then there’s also processes in, in Scientology, you can actually make someone smarter.

[01:07:24] Aaron: Yes. 

[01:07:24] Brad: Like, they literally become more intelligent and able to use- Yes … their inborn ability to reason. Like, it’s… That, this is… That’s one of the most amazing things. 

[01:07:34] Aaron: I, I never thought, like, my first realization in the church ever- 

[01:07:39] Brad: Mm-hmm … 

[01:07:40] Aaron: was when I, when I took this test- And I saw it and it was again, yours, my- same with you, my lowest was the happiness, right?

[01:07:47] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:07:47] Aaron: And, uh, and 

[01:07:49] Donovan: twin. 

[01:07:51] Aaron: That’s why we get along, Brad. Um, so the guy showed me the test, and I think I talked about it on the podcast already, but like- Okay … he goes, “This is your lowest point.” [01:08:00] He just pointed it to me. He didn’t even, he didn’t even say anything. He’s just like, “This is your lowest point.” And I go…

[01:08:03] Aaron: I started crying. I never cry. Bro, I 

[01:08:05] Donovan: started 

[01:08:05] Aaron: crying too. I never cry. I was crying like a baby. I was crying like a baby. I was crying too. I didn’t wanna admit it. I was crying like a baby. Yeah. My dad was there too, ’cause I mean, I was a child. 

[01:08:11] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:08:12] Aaron: Like yourself. Well, you know. Yeah. Underage. Okay. 

[01:08:14] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:08:14] Aaron: And, uh, my dad never seen me cry, right?

[01:08:17] Aaron: And it was, like, so intense, and it, I think it was the first moment that I realized right there, and specifically with the guy also talking with me. He said, like, after I stopped crying- Yeah … he’s like, “So do you wanna do something about this?” My, uh-huh. Like, the question didn’t make sense to me. 

[01:08:38] Donovan: Mm-hmm. 

[01:08:39] Aaron: What do you mean?

[01:08:41] Aaron: This is life. This is life. Like, doesn’t everyone feel this? Like, isn’t this how life is supposed to be? Doesn’t 

[01:08:49] Brad: everyone feel this way? 

[01:08:50] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:08:50] Aaron: I thought this is life and I’m there. 

[01:08:53] Brad: Yes. 

[01:08:54] Aaron: And it was the first time that someone invited me and said, “Why don’t we change it?” And when [01:09:00] he said, I said, “I am down, baby.”

[01:09:02] Aaron: Yeah. I, I, it was such a cha- Like in that mo- Mm. I didn’t have to even read, I didn’t even read a book. I did nothing yet. I just, someone just invited me, “Would you like to change that?” 

[01:09:11] Donovan: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:09:12] Aaron: And I said, “Hell yeah.” And then the tool worked, right? ‘Cause it, it could’ve been another place. I mean, if they had the same thing, said, “Oh,” I could’ve then got onto some drugs maybe.

[01:09:20] Aaron: Mm. At that point, if someone offered me something, I would’ve taken it, but then I would’ve kept going down. Yep. You see what I’m saying? Yeah. 

[01:09:25] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:09:25] Aaron: But it was the invitation, and then that thing that they invited me to do really changed it, and within three weeks, my tests changed dramatically. Yes. And I just think it’s, like, just the idea, and that’s why this podcast is called Don’t Do Nothing.

[01:09:36] Donovan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:36] Aaron: Because you can always do something. 

[01:09:38] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:38] Aaron: If you’re not as happy as you’d like to be, you can do something. Yes. If you’re a little more nervous than you’d like to be, you can do something. 

[01:09:43] Donovan: Yep. 

[01:09:43] Aaron: And so that’s great. I appreciate you bringing- 

[01:09:46] Donovan: Yeah, for sure … 

[01:09:47] Aaron: um, wow. Yeah. But, you know, for in your case, the, like, man, I’m telling you, this test, like, I would be so envious of this, your, or your before test.

[01:09:55] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. You know, 

[01:09:56] Donovan: when I 

[01:09:56] Aaron: started- Yeah … this was like, 

[01:09:57] Donovan: it was great. I mean, to be honest- It was great … I didn’t have [01:10:00] any major ruin or thing that was wrong with me. 

[01:10:03] Aaron: Yeah. 

[01:10:03] Donovan: Like, growing up a Scientologist, I’ve seen it work, and so I didn’t really have anything that was like, “Oh, this is terribly wrong with me.

[01:10:12] Donovan: How can I fix it?” 

[01:10:13] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:10:14] Donovan: And so, I don’t know, I just did the stuff ’cause it’s also, it’s not just for making people who are in a bad condition better. It’s also for making people who are able or in a good condition more able or more better. Mm. 

[01:10:29] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:10:30] Donovan: And so, like, if you’re listening to this and you’re like, “Oh, life’s great,” what if life was better than it is?

[01:10:35] Donovan: Mm-hmm. 

[01:10:35] Aaron: Yes. 

[01:10:36] Donovan: Like, what if you’re at 100%, what if you went to 1000%? Like, what if you- Yeah … just, any limit that you put there is a limit that you put. What if there was no limit? 

[01:10:47] Brad: Yeah, that’s right. 

[01:10:48] Donovan: You just get rid of any limits like that, and you just make yourself better. Yeah. That’s really what this is about.

[01:10:54] Brad: Yeah. For, for people who, like, for myself, my, my parents aren’t Scientologists. [01:11:00] Yeah. It’s just, it’s just me and my wife, and then, you know, our, our kids will decide what they wanna do. 

[01:11:04] Donovan: Sure. 

[01:11:04] Brad: But for somebody who didn’t grow up in Scientology, how would you, how would you describe growing up in Scientology to someone?

[01:11:11] Donovan: Yeah. Um- I would say any time there is a problem, there’s a solution. Mm. And instead of, I feel like a lot of people grow up and they have this, maybe they get in a fight with their parents or they mess something up and they feel very distraught about it. But I swear, every single issue or problem that you run into, there’s some condition you can apply.

[01:11:38] Donovan: There is some thing you can do to handle it and make you feel better and less worried about it. And so I guess just seeing how it’s applied, I, I didn’t have to go into it from a brand new perspective of like, “Does this work?” I know it works. 

[01:11:53] Aaron: Mm. 

[01:11:54] Donovan: I saw that it worked. 

[01:11:55] Aaron: Mm. 

[01:11:55] Donovan: And so it was a very easy decision to get on the Bridge to [01:12:00] Total Freedom, as we’ve been talking about- 

[01:12:01] Brad: Yeah

[01:12:02] Donovan: and do these courses and go do auditing and very easy decision. 

[01:12:06] Brad: And did you find that, uh, the, like, your, your home and your family was, was it, uh, was it calm and peaceful, or was it more like i- like intense and like activity? 

[01:12:19] Donovan: Uh, it’s a bit of both. I mean, both my parents are very driven. 

[01:12:23] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:12:23] Donovan: Like my mom talks about how before she had my brother, it wouldn’t be uncommon for them to be working, I don’t know, 60, 80- Mm-hmm

[01:12:31] Donovan: plus hours. And then she jokes about when they had him, they cut down to a normal 40-hour a week schedule. 

[01:12:37] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:38] Donovan: And so like he’d be in the office, he had his little chair there in her office. But like it w- we’re very driven, focused, peaceful. Obviously, like I said, we still like to have fun. 

[01:12:48] Aaron: Yeah. 

[01:12:48] Donovan: This doesn’t mean we’re just here constantly, 24/7, 365 driven.

[01:12:54] Donovan: There’s still fun to be had in life. It’s life. Enjoy it. 

[01:12:57] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:12:58] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:12:58] Brad: Yeah. Beautiful. 

[01:12:59] Aaron: You know, one [01:13:00] thing my daughter’s asked me, so she’s, she’s 11, um, and she asked me, “So Daddy, like-” Do you remember your past life? Right? And so anyway- I’ve talked to touch on this … I’ve talked about this, right? Yeah. And so, and so I’m curious, like, I’m, I’m, I’m sure you guys, you talked about it with your parents about- Yeah

[01:13:18] Aaron: you know, what happens before the, what happened before this life, what happens- Yeah … after this life. Like, you talked about that before you had any sort of counseling, correct? For sure, yeah. And so you, you already had the idea, like, “Hey, I’ve lived before, I’ll live, I’ll live again,” or no? Like- I- … can you explain to me kinda- 

[01:13:35] Donovan: I think when I was younger, I wasn’t really sure.

[01:13:37] Donovan: Okay. I think this idea of like, I think to a lot of people who are brand new to the idea, it can seem a little weird of like, “Wait, this isn’t my first, like I’ve lived before- Mm-hmm … or like I’m gonna live on and on.” And so it was more like me reading and actually doing the auditing, especially Dianetics, and seeing the [01:14:00] changes.

[01:14:00] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:00] Aaron: Mm-hmm. ‘

[01:14:01] Donovan: Cause there would be times where I’m in it and I’m like, I could fully just be making up everything I’m saying right now. And so, so that’s what I wanna ask- I’m sure everybody’s felt like that … 

[01:14:07] Aaron: so 

[01:14:07] Donovan: what was 

[01:14:08] Aaron: your, so, so have you had an experience where you go, “This is what occurred in my last life,” or in ano- like a past 

[01:14:15] Donovan: life?

[01:14:16] Donovan: Yes. In au- in Dianetic, especially New Era Dianetic, which is a very specific newer type of Dianetic auditing, very- clear and obvious- Mm-hmm … of what happened. Like, I would have things where- 

[01:14:31] Brad: Bro, it’s like a movie. 

[01:14:32] Donovan: I told many people this. Going, doing Dianetic auditing, because if you read the book, he tells you it’s with your eyes closed.

[01:14:39] Donovan: It’s fully like watching your own movie. Yep. 

[01:14:41] Brad: Mm-hmm. Yep. 

[01:14:42] Donovan: Time does not exist in there. 

[01:14:44] Brad: Mm-mm. 

[01:14:44] Donovan: I’d be like, “Okay, how long was I-” 

[01:14:46] Brad: It’s so intense … 

[01:14:47] Donovan: how long was I doing auditing? And, um, there were like two hours I thought I was in for 30 minutes. Yep. Yep. There would be times where I thought I was in for four hours- Mm-hmm

[01:14:55] Donovan: and it was an hour. 

[01:14:56] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:57] Donovan: But the thing you get- 

[01:14:59] Brad: And remembering all, [01:15:00] like- Yeah … 

[01:15:00] Donovan: yeah, 

[01:15:00] Brad: yeah. 

[01:15:01] Donovan: And there’d be things, like I spoke about my wins, and I said I would always… Like, I’d be talking to people, and my eyes would just go this way. I couldn’t actually talk to someone. I’d be, like, over here. 

[01:15:14] Aaron: Oh. 

[01:15:14] Donovan: And I was actually able…

[01:15:16] Donovan: Like, I couldn’t have my attention fully fixed- 

[01:15:18] Aaron: Mm-hmm … 

[01:15:18] Donovan: and confront what I was, who or what I was talking to. And I actually, with Dianetics, took that back to a specific thing in my past, a previous life, found out why that was, handled it, and I don’t do that anymore. 

[01:15:34] Brad: Wow. 

[01:15:35] Donovan: Wow. That’s a good example of, like-

[01:15:38] Donovan: things there. And it’s also not, it’s not something where I’m, like, overly concerned of, like, what was I doing last life or 100, 200, whatever years ago. It happened. 

[01:15:47] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:47] Donovan: I handled whatever it was. It doesn’t bother me anymore. And almost, like, doing that auditing, there, it removes the concern or the worry or the bother.

[01:15:56] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:15:57] Donovan: It just gives you, like, a more, I don’t [01:16:00] know, knowingness, like an ability to know about it. 

[01:16:02] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:16:03] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:16:04] Brad: Yeah, and like the, uh, the… I’ll, I’ll just say for me, um, and I kn- I think you mentioned before, like, it can be odd to people coming in, like the concept that maybe it’s not just this one life. Yeah.

[01:16:15] Brad: Maybe there’s, things have come before and things will come after. You know, one thing that we forget, ’cause we live in the United States and we’re- Yeah … you know, it’s very Western and we’re pounded with this philosophy of one life. I mean, YOLO is- YOLO … literally one of the most popular songs ever. Why do you think it’s the most popular?

[01:16:31] Brad: Anyways. No agenda there from anyone. Um, so the, the thing that we forget though is there’s, like, two billion people in the eastern part of the world from, from us- 

[01:16:44] Donovan: Yeah … 

[01:16:45] Brad: that believe in reincarnation. Yeah. Like, this is not a new concept. Yeah, not at all. This is, it’s not new at all, you know? And, um, so, like, for me, when I walked in, I was 100% certain that it was not just this life.

[01:16:58] Brad: Mm. Like before, like when I walked [01:17:00] in- Mm … for the first time, I wouldn’t have ever, like, necessarily said that to someone. 

[01:17:03] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:17:04] Brad: But when I heard that for the first time, of like, “Hey, have you considered maybe if you cut off the arm, are you dead? No. You cut off the leg, are you dead? Well, why does it stop with the rest of the body?”

[01:17:12] Brad: Yeah. “What if you just live on?” I was like, “Well, of course you’re gonna live on.” 

[01:17:15] Donovan: Yes. 

[01:17:15] Brad: I’m not just a body. 

[01:17:16] Donovan: And he gives a good test of it where, you know, I’m sure you’re familiar, close your eyes, picture a cat, and then it’s the who’s looking at the cat there. 

[01:17:25] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:17:25] Donovan: And I guess even if you just use logic and it’s like, say, I mean, if the Earth’s been around, what is it, four something billion years?

[01:17:32] Donovan: Yeah. In Scientology, he talks about how long we’ve been here, and you just think this is your first four billion years. You think you’re just, you’re here for 70, 80 years and that’s it. Mm. You get here, you, you’re birthed, you live, you die, and that’s it. 

[01:17:50] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:17:51] Aaron: It’s pretty depressing, actually, 

[01:17:52] Donovan: if you think about it.

[01:17:53] Donovan: Yeah, to me, yeah. Very 

[01:17:54] Brad: depressing. It’s very 

[01:17:55] Donovan: depressing. Very depressing. Like, I don’t know, you get to 40 years old and some people- 

[01:17:58] Brad: Sounds like a good way to sell a lot [01:18:00] of drugs and make people very anxious. 

[01:18:02] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:18:02] Aaron: And 

[01:18:02] Donovan: get rich quick. It goes back to instant 

[01:18:05] Brad: gratification. And actually bring down, bring down the country because- Yeah

[01:18:06] Aaron: if it ends, then why, like, why does it matter? Why does it matter? We live once. Why do you have to, why do you have to leave a legacy? Yeah. Why do you have to do important things? Why do you have to keep this place good- Yeah … if you didn’t, don’t come back to it? 

[01:18:15] Brad: Why not spit on the ground? 

[01:18:18] Aaron: There’s 

[01:18:18] Brad: no, there’s no nothing.

[01:18:18] Brad: Yeah. Why not chew gum? No, I’m being sarcastic. No, but seriously. Yeah, yeah. That’s like taken to, like that, that is, that, that’s, that’s that logic being used correctly. 

[01:18:26] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:18:26] Brad: Yeah. Don’t want gum on the streets. 

[01:18:28] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:18:28] Brad: Ever. Yeah. 

[01:18:30] Donovan: Yeah. So it’s, I don’t, not a viewpoint I’d wanna have, but it’s something to consider of, like, all of this time from whatever the beginning was and whatever- Up to now, you really think, like is there any chance this might not be your first time here?

[01:18:50] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:51] Donovan: Mm-hmm. And you see these kids who are, I don’t know, two years old, they’re a prodigy on the piano. 

[01:18:56] Brad: Mm. 

[01:18:57] Donovan: It’s like where’d that come from? 

[01:18:58] Brad: Yep, that’s right. 

[01:18:59] Donovan: [01:19:00] Why did this person go into surgery, they come out, they speak a language they didn’t speak? 

[01:19:04] Brad: Yep. 

[01:19:05] Donovan: What’s happening there? 

[01:19:06] Brad: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:19:08] Donovan: Things for you to consider.

[01:19:09] Brad: Yes. Yes, yes. For sure. 

[01:19:12] Aaron: You know, I, uh, I’ll tell you, I, I definitely, I had that sort of concern- Mm … that like I’m not gonna be able to remember another life. You know, I just, ’cause I, I hadn’t. So but it, it’s, it’s crazy how it just flows. 

[01:19:27] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:19:27] Aaron: You know, it wasn’t the plan, if you look at the… It wasn’t a plan to like, “Let’s go and remember that.”

[01:19:31] Aaron: That’s not the idea. The idea is how do you improve people? No. Yes. How do you improve someone’s life? You’re 

[01:19:34] Brad: talking about like during LRH’s 

[01:19:35] Aaron: research? During, yeah, during what he’s, what he’s figuring 

[01:19:38] Donovan: out how to Dianetics. His research was not like this. Yeah. His, the research was not, “Let me tap in, in the b- in the history and see what was I doing- Yeah

[01:19:44] Donovan: 500 years.” No. That was not the plan of it. Let me hit, let me hit, hit up the wayback machine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, let me back it up here. The- That was not the plan. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s just it, it, it actually helps. And, and so what I found is like, hey, 

[01:19:55] Aaron: if that happened and your life got better- 

[01:19:57] Brad: Mm-hmm 

[01:19:58] Donovan: Yeah … 

[01:19:58] Aaron: that’s all that matters.

[01:19:59] Donovan: Yes. 

[01:19:59] Aaron: [01:20:00] So- Yep … um, anyway, we’ll see. I’m, I’m excited for- And- … for, uh, my daughter to, to go through. I mean- Bro … it’s, it’s, it’s not, it’s actually- Yeah … it’s crazy how easy it is. 

[01:20:08] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:20:08] Aaron: I really thought it would be so hard for me personally. 

[01:20:10] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:20:11] Aaron: So it’s like you just go a- it’s so natural. 

[01:20:13] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:20:14] Brad: Yeah, 100%. Yeah, and the, the, the other thing is like there’s, there’s all this, uh, people get so obsessed with having to invalidate other people’s realities.

[01:20:23] Brad: Yes. Like if my reality is that I’ve lived before, j- how is that gonna hurt anybody? 

[01:20:28] Donovan: Yes. 

[01:20:28] Brad: Right. You know what I mean? That’s my reality. If that’s your reality, great. Yeah. If that, like if somebody disagrees with that, great. It doesn’t, it doesn’t matter. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like or at least it shouldn’t matter.

[01:20:36] Brad: Yeah, some things are gonna be 

[01:20:36] Aaron: gone and it, that’s it. Okay, fine. Okay. 

[01:20:38] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:20:38] Donovan: That’s fair. Yeah. 

[01:20:39] Brad: Yeah, that’s right. 

[01:20:39] Donovan: Like I saw a video yesterday from Gary Vee of like, “Why would I ever be upset about anyone’s success?” 

[01:20:45] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:45] Donovan: Like someone’s success does not affect you in any way whatsoever. 

[01:20:50] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:51] Donovan: It’s, and I think it kinda goes back to that, you know, reactive mind idea of like there’s something that’s fixed in there, some sort of mechanism [01:21:00] of like, why do I do this and I’m not happy with it?

[01:21:03] Donovan: I didn’t- 

[01:21:04] Brad: Compulsively, I 

[01:21:04] Donovan: can’t stop … I didn’t wanna, I can’t stop doing it. Yeah. And you notice it. I didn’t even notice it until after I was done. Mm-hmm. I was like, “Holy I was doing this.” 

[01:21:11] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:12] Donovan: You know, like why do I always do this? Or like I said with the eyes, why do I always look away from people? 

[01:21:18] Brad: Yeah.

[01:21:18] Donovan: That there’s something mixed in there. And- Yeah … Dianetics and Scientology gives you the path to handle that. Yep. 

[01:21:27] Brad: Yeah, totally. 

[01:21:28] Donovan: Fully. 

[01:21:29] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:21:29] Donovan: Like he said Throughout things that like other people have tried, no one succeeded. 

[01:21:35] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:35] Donovan: And this is the first time, like I said earlier, skip everything we’re saying, skip everything the bad thing, the bad things people are saying, and just look that if there was a chance this were true- 

[01:21:47] Brad: Mm-hmm

[01:21:48] Donovan: would you take advantage of it? 

[01:21:52] Aaron: Absolutely. 

[01:21:53] Brad: And on that subject- 

[01:21:54] Donovan: Yeah … 

[01:21:55] Brad: there’s a question that we ask every guest. 

[01:21:56] Donovan: Yes. 

[01:21:57] Brad: In your own words, what is Scientology? [01:22:00] 

[01:22:00] Donovan: Yeah. Um, wow, okay, so Scientology to me… Well, at its root, it means knowing how to know. 

[01:22:06] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:22:07] Donovan: So I think you can really expand off of that and say Scientology is, I wouldn’t really call it a belief system.

[01:22:16] Donovan: It’s a system of information that one can look at, evaluate for himself, and use to really improve anything he wants in life, and make himself the fullest of his potential that he can be. That’s really what Scientology is about. It’s for honest beings to prosper, ethics to be in on the planet. No war- 

[01:22:42] Aaron: Mm

[01:22:42] Donovan: no criminals, nothing like that. Like if that sounds like something you’re interested in, reaching your full potential, erasing negative compulsive behavior, I think that’s really what Scientology is. It teaches you what life is. 

[01:22:58] Brad: Mm-hmm. [01:23:00] 

[01:23:00] Donovan: It’s like the secrets of life, but it’s, it’s so simple. 

[01:23:03] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:23:03] Donovan: And you take that and you apply it to yourself, like it’s a applied religious philosophy.

[01:23:09] Donovan: You use it in your life for anything you want. Anything you do, anything you want, it can be used, and it makes your life better. 

[01:23:17] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:23:18] Aaron: Amazing. 

[01:23:18] Donovan: Yeah. 

[01:23:19] Brad: Beautiful, bro. 

[01:23:19] Donovan: Great. 

[01:23:20] Aaron: Well, thank you for coming on, brother. 

[01:23:21] Donovan: Yeah, glad you- Appreciate it … glad to be here. 

[01:23:22] Brad: All right. 

[01:23:22] Donovan: Great. 

[01:23:23] Brad: And remember, don’t do nothing. 

[01:23:24] Donovan: Don’t do nothing