Don't Do Nothing

[00:00:00] Greg: At that time, South Africa was the murder capital of the world. He goes, ah, you get used to it. I can’t complain anymore. I gotta get busy. He jumps outta the chair and I just yell at him, sit the F down, and he sits down and I’m like, why are you in prison? And he is like, prisons are colleges of crime. They become better criminals.

[00:00:15] Greg: They learn how to become better robbers or better gangster or whatever makes right. The guy’s like this in his shit like Mr. Greg, Mr. Greg. I’m like, boy. He goes, I gave up smoking marijuana. I just spoke to 50 of the worst of the 

[00:00:26] Brad: worst. And they’re not the worst of the worst. 

[00:00:28] Greg: What we are offering is miraculous.

[00:00:30] Greg: 480 guys get up and start walking towards me alarms. I’m like, what’s going on? They’re like, they trying to kill you. I’m like, no. You 

[00:00:39] Brad: are a magnificent storyteller. 

[00:00:40] Greg: Yeah. The most regular thing that occurred in just about every prison where there was a shot caller who did the program, who then just was like, and was now the good guy.

[00:00:48] Greg: Wow. 

[00:00:50] Brad: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Don’t Do Nothing podcast we have with us today. Uh uh. A beast of a man. This guy’s done a lot. [00:01:00] Uh, today we have Mr. Greg Caprio. So, uh, he has represented, uh, an organization that we haven’t actually gotten the chance to, to go over on the podcast. We’re gonna talk about it a lot today.

[00:01:10] Brad: It’s an organization called Crimmon. Uh, he represented Crimmon at the highest level globally for over a decade. Uh, he is a trained auditor. He’s an awesome guy. He has actually been awarded the highest honor in the Scientology religion, which is the, uh, it’s called the Freedom Medal. We’ve had a couple other Freedom Medal winners on here as well.

[00:01:31] Brad: So you’re in good company. Uh, Mr. Greg, thank you for being with us here today. 

[00:01:36] Greg: Thank you for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this. 

[00:01:38] Brad: Yeah, we’re us too. 

[00:01:39] Aaron: I, I wanna say yes, please. So far the most sought after guest. Listen, I, I’ve just read a lot of your stories and stuff that you’ve written, and I’m like, we need to bring this guy.

[00:01:48] Aaron: So actually, the number one most sought after guest so far. It’s yourself, so 

[00:01:53] Brad: by us. 

[00:01:53] Aaron: Okay. 

[00:01:54] Brad: Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally, I think actually literally we did like the first episode and Aaron was like, we have to [00:02:00] have Greg on here. Cool. Because he, ’cause I think it was really because of the stories. 

[00:02:03] Aaron: Yeah, yeah, 

[00:02:04] Greg: yeah.

[00:02:05] Greg: The stories tell everything. 

[00:02:06] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:02:07] Greg: The stories tell it all. I mean, it’s, it’s a story of taking the worst of the worst and using Scientology tech, or not Scientology Tech, but LH Tech, like the way to happiness using their technology. Have, having the guy apply it and change his life, like watch them change in front of you is just the most, it’s life changing.

[00:02:29] Greg: It’s like, you know, you think you’re gonna, you’re going to a prison and you’re gonna help these guys change and you change just as much as they do because you see the demonstration of. Like man’s ba like, you know, there’s this reference from Mr. Hubbard that says, man is basically good. 

[00:02:46] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:46] Greg: Right. And man, do you see that on this program?

[00:02:49] Brad: Wow. Yeah. 

[00:02:50] Greg: You just see like, you know, the guy’s like, and, and I don’t ask the guy what he’s done. I don’t care. 

[00:02:55] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:02:56] Greg: He’s in prison. 

[00:02:57] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:02:57] Greg: Okay. What am I gonna say? You’re wrong. He [00:03:00] knows he is wrong. He knows he is done wrong, right? Yeah. So what do we do is we work with what’s right with him, what is right with the guy.

[00:03:05] Greg: And then when you work with what’s right with the guy, all the mistakes fall off. They’re like, the wrongness is stop, like the wrong, he stops being a jerk. He’s like, but I can do this right? I can do this right. I can do this right. I can do this. Right. And you just work with the rightness, and then you see this guy just be himself again.

[00:03:21] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:03:22] Greg: You know? Um, 

[00:03:24] Aaron: so I guess just to stop, because in, in case, you know, a lot of people listening to this have never heard of the word permanent before. 

[00:03:32] Greg: Okay. It means no crime. It’s Latin. Like, like nar on. Yes. It’s like a, we are like a sister. We were a spinoff of knocking on. 

[00:03:38] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:03:40] Greg: Noon started off. Yeah. No, we, we we’re, we’re like a sister.

[00:03:43] Greg: We, we are a spinoff of Narconon, and it became so popular that we needed an international office. 

[00:03:48] Brad: Mm. 

[00:03:48] Greg: It became so needed and wanted. Um, but it means, like narconon means no drugs. 

[00:03:53] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:53] Greg: And CRI on means no crime. Mm. In the Latin. In 

[00:03:55] Brad: Latin. 

[00:03:55] Greg: Yeah. And it was, it started in 1972, New Zealand. There was a guy that [00:04:00] started it then was just like, okay, how do we help this criminal population?

[00:04:03] Greg: If you look at the, the rea, the reason that it was so sought off and so needed was there statistics unfortunately, and, and I don’t mean this as in a bad way, but it’s just an unfortunate statistic that recidivism, the word recidivism means returning to crime, right? Mm-hmm. We go back to crime, that statistic has not been able to be dropped by any other methods.

[00:04:24] Greg: Mm-hmm. Used in the Department of Prisons, the Department of Corrections, whatever they call them around the world. And it’s something that they all personally have a loss on. Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:33] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:04:34] Greg: These guys go to work. They don’t go home and brag to their kids. About, Hey, I helped change this guy. They don’t, 

[00:04:40] Brad: yeah.

[00:04:41] Greg: It’s such a loss for them. So when we go in and we’re able to reduce that, we’re able to make the recidivism rate get less as opposed to being 80, 90%, which is horrible. Is that, is 

[00:04:51] Brad: that what it 

[00:04:52] Greg: is? It’s horrible. Really? 

[00:04:53] Brad: It’s like 80, 

[00:04:54] Greg: 90%. Yeah. I mean, I’ll, you know, as we get into this, into the podcast, I’ll tell you stories of what, you know, what [00:05:00] correctional officials and officers like privately have told me about, they release the guy and he’s like, he’s back like this within a week or less.

[00:05:10] Greg: And it’s, and for them it’s heartbreaking. Mm-hmm. Because you start off like you, you know, it’s almost like you start off on a, on say you have a purpose to help. Right? Then you go, okay, well I’m gonna, I don’t like crime, so I’m gonna address crime. And you go and work in these areas and then they don’t deliver that.

[00:05:25] Brad: Mm. 

[00:05:26] Greg: They don’t, you know, you don’t deliver. It’s like, it’s like you’re gonna sell oranges and then you don’t end up selling any oranges. 

[00:05:30] Brad: Oh, wow. 

[00:05:31] Greg: And you’re sitting at home and your wife’s like, where’s the money? You’re like, I haven’t sold any oranges. You 

[00:05:33] Brad: spend all your time staring 

[00:05:34] Greg: at oranges, moving 

[00:05:35] Brad: oranges, 

[00:05:36] Greg: studying it.

[00:05:36] Greg: You know everything 

[00:05:37] Brad: about the 

[00:05:37] Greg: jail. Yes. 

[00:05:37] Brad: You know, 

[00:05:38] Greg: unfortunately, they use, there’s a lot of wrong technology Yeah. In the prisons, you know, which is sad. But here’s the cool thing. When we use Crimmon and we use this education based program, which has the sole purpose of restoring the individual’s, uh, self-respect, that’s all.

[00:05:57] Greg: Nothing else. We don’t respect 

[00:05:58] Brad: the sole purpose is restoring 

[00:05:59] Greg: the individual respect, [00:06:00] restoring the individuals self-respect, 

[00:06:01] Brad: respect. 

[00:06:02] Greg: Mr. Hub said behind, you know, at the bottom of every criminal is a guy who has no self-respect. 

[00:06:07] Brad: Mm, 

[00:06:07] Greg: no self-respect. And if you look at that, you go, yeah, 

[00:06:09] Brad: it makes, 

[00:06:10] Greg: it makes total sense.

[00:06:10] Greg: It 

[00:06:10] Brad: makes total sense. 

[00:06:11] Greg: The guy has no respect for himself. He’s not gonna care about you and I, he’s not gonna care about your kids or your daughter, their property or your whatever. Nothing. It’ll be like, doesn’t matter. So then I can offend. I have no responsibility for myself. I can off offend. I love my Oh, 

[00:06:24] Brad: like m 

[00:06:24] Greg: Yeah.

[00:06:25] Greg: I can offend, I can, no, I don’t, I don’t care about myself. I don’t care about my wife. I don’t care. You know, every, like, it’s, I don’t care. Mm. And then, and then here’s the cool thing is when you get them started on the way to happiness, the first course is these guys are like, what is happening to me? 

[00:06:40] Brad: Yeah.

[00:06:40] Greg: What is, how come what is going on? And they’d stand up. And when I’d go, when I’d go visit the prisons, the guys are like, can, can you tell me what’s going on? I’m like, you, you tell me what’s going on, how’s it going? 

[00:06:51] Aaron: Okay, so, so this is done really lon is in prisons. That’s where it operates fully, correct?

[00:06:58] Greg: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:06:58] Aaron: So you’re going into the prison [00:07:00] and you deliver to the guys? 

[00:07:01] Greg: Yeah, we deliver and we have a lot of extension courses, correspondence courses. 

[00:07:05] Aaron: That’s the, I actually, I’ve done some by the way. 

[00:07:06] Greg: Yeah, that’s the biggest distribute. 

[00:07:08] Aaron: You can go over there down and you can actually, yeah. Sign up. Yeah. I don’t know if you, I don’t You say you don’t say adopt, what do you say?

[00:07:13] Aaron: You kind of 

[00:07:14] Greg: No. You, you, you take on, take 

[00:07:15] Aaron: on, 

[00:07:16] Greg: take on, take on. We give you a bunch of, of of students. We call them students. We don’t call ’em inmates. 

[00:07:20] Brad: Yeah, 

[00:07:21] Greg: yeah, yeah. Because once the guy’s enrolled, he has the interesting thing with the guy who’s enrolled. 

[00:07:24] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:07:24] Greg: He wants to change. There’s some glimmer there of like, ah, gotta end this life.

[00:07:29] Brad: Mm-hmm. Because it’s, 

[00:07:29] Greg: yeah, because 

[00:07:30] Brad: it’s vol. It’s completely voluntary. 

[00:07:31] Greg: 100%. Yeah, 100%. There’s no, 

[00:07:34] Brad: it’s the only voluntary thing in prison. 

[00:07:38] Aaron: Bad jokes, because there’s a lot, people do a lot of stuff and I mean, there’s a lot of stuff. There’s lot of stuff, there’s a lot of books. They 

[00:07:43] Greg: have libraries. I, yeah, there’s a most 

[00:07:45] Brad: voluntary thing in prison.

[00:07:47] Greg: There’s, yeah. There’s a lot of goodwill that goes on in there. Like there’s a lot of goodwill. It’s just getting that result of no more being a criminal. Yeah. Like the guy is no longer thinking, acting like a criminal. 

[00:07:59] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:07:59] Greg: It [00:08:00] is astounded. So, anyway, we’ll get into that. 

[00:08:02] Aaron: Yeah. So we’ll get into that. So, to to, to, before that, I wanna get into the man Greg.

[00:08:06] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Okay. Mr. Caprio, you, you’re in this line of work. You’ve changed, I mean, I’ve heard so many stories. They’re incredible. You are in that line of work, you shared menu. Okay. 

[00:08:14] Greg: Yeah. 

[00:08:15] Aaron: But how did you get in that line of work to start with? Like how, who told, Hey, come and do this tele of work. Like, okay, you woke up one morning and said, I’m gonna go to the prison, help these guys.

[00:08:27] Aaron: Like, I, I don’t like how, what’s the 

[00:08:28] Greg: story? I don’t think I did that. 

[00:08:29] Aaron: No, no, no, 

[00:08:30] Greg: no. Um, so I’ll tell you. So I got into Scientology in 1986 in Johannesburg, in South Africa. Um, and was like, where’s this been all my life? Mm-hmm. Like, honestly, I was like, this is just common sense. And the people were so decent and I was raised Roman Catholic, like very Christian.

[00:08:46] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:46] Greg: And I think it’s awesome and I loved it, but I was like, but it’s like. Meeting Scientologists and getting to know, you know, and doing genetics in Scientology was just like, it’s a, it was like raised, like really reaffirmed. My parents, how [00:09:00] they brought us up was like, good morals, you know, go to church.

[00:09:03] Greg: You respect, you have a belief in a supreme being you like, you know, so I like that. But I just liked the fact that, just like the fact that genetics and Scientology, you get to be yourself. 

[00:09:12] Brad: Mm. Yeah. 

[00:09:12] Greg: You know, and not ask for any permission. Like, and that’s been one of my mottoes in life is I don’t ask for permission.

[00:09:18] Greg: I’ll ask for forgiveness afterwards maybe, but I won’t ask for permission. But anyway, so how I got in was, um, I became very a, you know, it was interesting. I couldn’t help before Scientology. 

[00:09:30] Brad: Mm. You couldn’t 

[00:09:32] Greg: help. I couldn’t help. 

[00:09:32] Brad: They couldn’t help 

[00:09:33] Greg: others. I would try and help and it would be a mistake.

[00:09:35] Greg: ’cause I’d, I’d make people wrong or I’d, it would be, I just didn’t know how to help. So I just didn’t help. I was just like, I wanted to. I so wanted to, but I didn’t. 

[00:09:44] Aaron: So what’s an example of that? Like, 

[00:09:45] Greg: so example is like my brother gets into an argument, right? Mm-hmm. And with his girlfriend, and I am like, you know, and I’m listening to both of them and I’m trying to figure out which one’s, right.

[00:09:55] Greg: And I’m like, so I’m thinking, okay, he’s my brother, so he is gotta be, right? So I [00:10:00] take his side, what if it turns out that he’s wrong or I take her side and what if it turns out she’s wrong? So I was just like, I don’t know how to do this. 

[00:10:08] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:10:08] Greg: So I would just, would not help. And then I do genetics and then I, you know, you know, you regain your potential.

[00:10:14] Greg: And then I do some courses in Scientology and I’m like, I can help. Mm-hmm. I can help people, I can give them assists, I can help them identify, handle conflicts. I can do a third party handling. I can spot an anti-social person and say, Hey, let’s try it this way. I can stop using force to communicate.

[00:10:31] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:32] Greg: Yeah. You know? So, so that was fantastic because I was like, man, I’m. It was like, it was like the lights came on. 

[00:10:38] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:10:39] Greg: Like we’re actually like, it was like the afterburner came on ’cause the lights were on. 

[00:10:42] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:10:43] Greg: Sometimes there was somebody home, sometimes there wasn’t. So now the lights were on and I was home all the time.

[00:10:48] Greg: Wow. 

[00:10:48] Aaron: And how did you find, like, how did you get in contact with Scientology in the first place? 

[00:10:52] Greg: That’s an interesting story. I was, um, it’s an interesting story. We were drunk at a party. 

[00:10:59] Aaron: [00:11:00] Okay. 

[00:11:00] Greg: And a friend of mine, it was interesting. I was looking, 

[00:11:03] Aaron: yeah. 

[00:11:04] Greg: I was looking for something. I was like, every, I know I’m gonna answer your question, but it was like every Sunday night.

[00:11:10] Greg: Mm-hmm. I would just get this pang in my stomach about Oh my gosh. Another week of the same old, same old. Yeah. 

[00:11:16] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:17] Greg: I was just like, there’s gotta be something else. There’s gotta be like, and I’d go to church and I would go to confession and it, and that was awesome. It was just this, like, there’s something.

[00:11:27] Greg: Life can’t just be this. Yeah. Can’t just be like this, you know? And anyway, this friend of mine, um, Graham Rubella, I’ll never forget, he was like, Hey, have you have you, do you know anything about the mind? I was like, I don’t know anything about the mind. He’s like, would you? 

[00:11:38] Aaron: And you, you’re both drunk or just you or 

[00:11:40] Greg: we were drinking.

[00:11:40] Greg: We weren’t drunk. Okay, okay. Thank goodness. You know? ’cause there’s still a little bit like comp mentors, right? Yeah. Yeah. So he’s like, okay, well have you heard of dietetics? It was interesting. And I had heard of dietetics. 

[00:11:51] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:11:51] Greg: We’d get these, um, little, uh, promo pieces in the mail and they used to jack me up.

[00:11:59] Greg: ’cause it would be, [00:12:00] can you realize your full potential? And I’d be like, nah, full potential. ’cause and then, you know, like, you didn’t, you didn’t like it, it check 

[00:12:07] Aaron: you up, good or bad? I can’t tell. 

[00:12:08] Greg: Yeah, no. I was like, I don’t, I was like upset about the same. I, sorry, sorry. It was like bad because I was like, what do you mean your full potential?

[00:12:15] Greg: Because. Throughout my whole life, Uhhuh, my teachers, my coaches, friends, Greg, you’ve got so much potential. Oh, you’ve got so much potential. And I’d be like, okay, where is it? Where do I find this? Where is it? Where, what, where? Yeah. You know, you’ve got, and I’m like, okay. And then I’m looking at my life and I wasn’t doing bad.

[00:12:33] Greg: I was doing pretty good as a regional sales manager. I was, you know, I was doing good, but I was just like, where’s this? Because I was looking, I was just like, I am not wearing, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not occupying as much space or responsibility as I know I can. I’m just not. And I’m like, so this thing or this like potential.

[00:12:51] Greg: I was like, ah. Anyway. So he is like, well, do you wanna find out about it? I’m like, fine. So I went. So, um, I went for [00:13:00] an interview and I was interested straight away. I mean, I walked into the church, right? Mm-hmm. In Johannesburg North. And there was this young girl at reception, and she controlled me with such good communication skills.

[00:13:13] Greg: Mm-hmm. And I was like. I can’t believe this. Like, how are you? Was Saturday morning? I was a little bit hungover, you know? ’cause I used to go like, I was like, okay, I’ve gotta do anything to improve myself. So I’d go to the gym and just pump iron and work out and be as fit as I could. But I’d go get wasted on a Saturday night.

[00:13:28] Greg: I’d get, you know, we’d go with my friends, we’d go to a party. But there was, there was, and there was this circle, this like on a, on a wheel almost. So going to the church on a Saturday morning, do the standard interview, do the, the OCA, you know, the personality test. Yep. Get the results. And as I’ll never forget the results.

[00:13:46] Greg: Like the paper came this way and I saw my graph and I was like, that’s right. 

[00:13:54] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:13:55] Greg: I was like, I had no complaints. I was like, yep, that’s true. That’s true. That’s true. [00:14:00] That’s true. That’s true. That’s true. That’s true. And my graph sucked. Excuse my language. 

[00:14:04] Brad: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:14:05] Greg: It was horrible. But I was like, yep, that’s the truth.

[00:14:07] Greg: There was no, at least I was like, okay, they’re honest. Mm-hmm. Yeah. There’s honesty here. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like at least think with that. I’m like, nobody was like, oh, well, you know, you could be this. It was no sales pitch. There was no like, you know, some snake, you have 

[00:14:18] Aaron: great potential. 

[00:14:19] Greg: Yeah, you have great. I think they said that to me.

[00:14:23] Greg: I would’ve showed it. I leaving,

[00:14:27] Greg: so, um, so that was really funny. So, but when I saw my graph, I was like, okay, what do I, my first question, I must’ve been the easiest rage cycle. 

[00:14:36] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:37] Greg: My first question was like, what do I do? Mm-hmm. And she was almost like, what do you mean? I was like, well, what I do, this obviously sucks. You know? It’s all down the bottom.

[00:14:45] Greg: It was all below all Below the bottom line. All below the bottom line. All except I think my communication score was like sticking out the most. Mm-hmm. And I was like, and she said, well you should do a communication course. And I was like, but that’s my strongest score. Yeah. And she’s like, yeah, but it’s in the gray.

[00:14:58] Greg: I was like, yeah, you’re right. [00:15:00] So I started, I started, you know, doing the communication course and it was, that was the coolest thing that I loved. It was instant getting to going to courses that, you know, it was like, I’ve never been into a classroom. Okay, this is the classroom. This is what you do, this is where you sign up.

[00:15:13] Greg: This is the schedule. Okay. I’m like, cool. There’s structure, there’s, okay, good. And then sit down and here’s the drills. And you read and you start doing the drills. Whoa. 

[00:15:20] Brad: Yep. 

[00:15:22] Greg: I was like, this is amazing. 

[00:15:24] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:24] Greg: How to be comfortable and communicate. I was never, I was, I’d always be like, okay, I’m gonna sit there and I’m gonna flex my bicep, or I’m gonna take on, I’m gonna take on some persona that’s not me.

[00:15:36] Greg: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Just to be in a communication side. Mm-hmm. Just to communicate and I could just be there. That’s totally true. Yeah. Do this, drill these drills on communication and be comfortable. 

[00:15:45] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:15:45] Greg: And be happy. 

[00:15:46] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:47] Greg: Yeah. As well. I was like, I haven’t been this happy in a long time. 

[00:15:50] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:50] Greg: So funny. Wow.

[00:15:51] Greg: Funny story. So I go home and my friend, we get up, I get home from course, it was a Wednesday night. Wednesday night was always like a, like the midweek, you go out and [00:16:00] you party like type of night. Right. Even though Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:16:02] Brad: Oh, 

[00:16:02] Greg: wow. Yeah. My friends and I, so, so we go to this, this place called Gold Reef City in, in Johannesburg.

[00:16:09] Greg: And they’re drinking and I’m not, ’cause I’m on course. I’m like, okay, I can’t drink ’cause I’m on course Right. And they’re drinking. I am. The life and soul of the party. 

[00:16:17] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:16:18] Greg: And, and they were like, yeah, 

[00:16:19] Aaron: no alcohol. 

[00:16:19] Greg: How drunk are you? And I’m like, I haven’t touched the thing. And I’m joking and talking to girls and dancing, but not, and I wasn’t flirting.

[00:16:25] Greg: It was like, I was like, this is amazing. Yeah. I could just be myself. 

[00:16:30] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:16:30] Greg: It was so cool. So anyway, there was like, okay, I’m in whatever’s next I’m doing that, you know, then did the, you know, and then just moved up the bridge. Um, but then to get into criminal, I, you know, as you go, as you become more and more aware, you start seeing society.

[00:16:44] Brad: Mm. Yeah. 

[00:16:44] Greg: It’s not just like, okay, I’m just gonna go where my friends are and go to the club and go to the country club and go to the nice places and the restaurants. I’m gonna, I’m like, okay, 

[00:16:54] Aaron: you did that stuff, but you’re like that. There’s more. 

[00:16:57] Greg: Now I seeing, now I’m actually seeing [00:17:00] everything. 

[00:17:00] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:01] Greg: You know, and in South Africa we had apartheid, we had racial segregation.

[00:17:07] Greg: And, um, and I hated it from, I remember as a kid, I hated it. 

[00:17:11] Brad: What, what year, what year did that end? 

[00:17:13] Greg: That ended in 1993. 

[00:17:15] Brad: Oh wow. Yeah. 

[00:17:16] Greg: Yeah. 

[00:17:16] Brad: Got it. 

[00:17:17] Greg: Well, that’s when we wait, that’s when we, the election. The elections. Yeah. But, but check this out, 89 was when it started changing. 

[00:17:25] Brad: Mm. 

[00:17:25] Greg: And I was so happy. 

[00:17:26] Brad: Mm. 

[00:17:26] Greg: I mean, to be honest with you, every South African was so happy except the minority few.

[00:17:31] Greg: But every South African was so sick and tired of this because like 90% of the country couldn’t, had no rights. 

[00:17:39] Brad: Wow. 

[00:17:40] Greg: It is nuts. Yet we’re mates. 

[00:17:42] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:17:42] Greg: They’re like, oh, but you can’t, you know, you can’t live next door to me. You can’t sit in the like, you know, you the, you know, it was just this crazy 

[00:17:49] Brad: Yeah.

[00:17:50] Greg: Insane, evil apartheid like evil. Right. And every South African. So the cool thing that the, the cool thing about the white guys, we voted change out the government. 

[00:17:59] Brad: Yeah. [00:18:00] 

[00:18:00] Greg: We had a referendum and we voted. There was, I’ll never forget it was a yes or no vote Yes. To keep things the same. I think it was vote yes to stay the same or, and vote no to change or the other way.

[00:18:09] Greg: I forget which one it was. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And we all voted, we want to change. The majority were like, we went done with apartheid, we went done with this racial segregation. And that was like the late eighties and then into the nineties. So that was cool. But then what that did as we moved forward and then we, you know, South Africa was gonna become the rainbow nation, right?

[00:18:28] Greg: So a real example for the planet, right? And it was cool. There was a, there was a cool grace period, but then you get to really see how society is living. And the 90% of the folk unfortunately, were living not very well. And, you know, so the crime rate just skyrocketed. It just was outta control. And as a Scientologist, you know, I’d gone clear in 1990 and I’m like, okay, I want a clear planet.

[00:18:55] Greg: I want sane people. I like, I like to be, I liked people to do well, I want [00:19:00] everybody to win. And you start running into this criminality thing, right? 

[00:19:03] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:04] Greg: And, and because I’m, ’cause I’m me. Because I wanted to like, oh, I wanted to, I wanted to wear my hat. I wanted to like, take my share of the spoils. I wanted to, you know, like I will always like, you know, in my, in, you know, luck.

[00:19:18] Greg: Luckily as Scientologists, we get given the opportunity to be responsible. Like go out and do stuff. Go out and help your fellow man go out and change conditions. Don’t just sit there and be all theoretical. Scientology is not theoretical, you know, it’s an applied philosophy. Yeah. So you gotta go out and do it.

[00:19:34] Greg: And, and I could go out and do it and I was like, okay, so what’s the area that’s bugging me the most? 

[00:19:39] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:40] Greg: Was criminality. 

[00:19:41] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:41] Greg: I’d been carjacked. 

[00:19:44] Brad: Wow. 

[00:19:44] Greg: I was like, okay, you know, you go to the church and we have to pay security guards, you know, 10 bucks a night to watch our cars while we’re on course.

[00:19:52] Greg: And you’re like, okay, well this is not, you know, and, and there was this reference from Mr. David that said, from Southern Africa, we’ll spring the next great civilization. [00:20:00] And I’m like. What 

[00:20:01] Brad: they’re like, how’s that gonna 

[00:20:02] Greg: happen? Oh, sir, how is that possible? 

[00:20:04] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:20:05] Greg: You know? So I was like, okay, I can’t complain anymore.

[00:20:09] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:20:09] Greg: I gotta get busy. 

[00:20:10] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:20:10] Greg: So I was like, okay. And it was interesting, as soon as I said that, as soon as I, well, not as soon as, but I, I made that decision. So I started working as a volunteer minister. Um, and it was interesting, the department, so now, okay, let fast forward, so now it’s 1995, right? We’ve had the change in government, the new government is in, and we’ve had this, like, now everybody’s getting used to equal rights for everybody.

[00:20:32] Greg: One man, one vote, live where you want, do what, you know. And it became a very, pretty much permissive, it was like, whoa, this is really interesting. 

[00:20:39] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:40] Greg: Right. And, um, and then so the, but the prison, the Department of Prisons or whatever, they, department of Corrections called the church to ask for help. 

[00:20:48] Brad: Oh.

[00:20:49] Greg: And we were like, oh, it’s a crank call. ’cause ’cause the church used to be opposed to the apartheid government. 

[00:20:54] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:20:54] Greg: Like we would, we, we, we, we, we investigated their crimes against like the [00:21:00] black slave labor camps. The church was very instrumental in making that internationally known. Right? 

[00:21:04] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:05] Greg: So, um, the, uh, so, so the, so we get the call and we’re like, what are we gonna do with prisons?

[00:21:11] Greg: We don’t handle prisons. We handle individuals who want to go free. You know? Did 

[00:21:14] Aaron: criminal not exist at this time? 

[00:21:15] Greg: Um, it may have existed, no, it was since 1972, but not in South Africa. Oh, they’re not in South Africa. It was, we weren’t doing South Africa. And for me, there was an out point. I’d be like, why is there no criminal yet?

[00:21:26] Brad: Mm. 

[00:21:26] Greg: But anyway, so, so they, um, so they wanted an appointment. We were like, okay, we’ll go to the appointment. But we were with, we were thinking that, and then we, we, you know, we’re thinking like, but the government doesn’t like us. And then it was like, I was like, wait, hold on a second. It’s the new government.

[00:21:39] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:21:39] Greg: These guys, they did like us because of the help that we gave. Yeah. To make things change for the better. You know, like if you look at all the study technology that, that Scientologists helped put into South Africa, like amazing, like in, in South Africa and, and the country, just North Zimbabwe. So, um, we, uh, so I go to the meeting, I introduce them [00:22:00] to, you know, the, give them the Scientology handbook, the gig, you know, the cool Volunteer Ministers Volunteer Minister handbook.

[00:22:04] Greg: Right. And it’s a cool book. ’cause it’s, it makes a nice impact. If you drop it on the table, it’s 

[00:22:08] Aaron: heavy. 

[00:22:09] Greg: It’s heavy. So I walk in and I, and they look at me and I’m like, here’s, you know, and I explained to them what it is, and then they said, okay, shush vert enough. And I was like, okay, I’ve messed that up.

[00:22:18] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:22:19] Greg: And then they talked to, and then two, about a minute later, they said, when can you start? 

[00:22:23] Aaron: What? 

[00:22:24] Greg: Yeah. When can you start? And I was like, um, hold on a second. So I speak to my colleague and she’s shocked and I’m just like, just let me handle this. And I said, 

[00:22:32] Brad: what, what was, what was the, what was the ask?

[00:22:34] Brad: What did they want help with? 

[00:22:36] Greg: They, they wanted, didn’t 

[00:22:36] Brad: they averaged everything 

[00:22:38] Greg: they, I mean recidivism? 

[00:22:39] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:22:40] Greg: Behavior gang fights. As we were getting into, oh, I’m 

[00:22:42] Brad: sorry. It was the department of Correct 

[00:22:43] Greg: department, department of Correction 

[00:22:44] Brad: Prisons that 

[00:22:44] Greg: called 

[00:22:45] Brad: Got it, 

[00:22:45] Greg: got it, got it. Yeah. Department of Corrections is the nice term for prisons.

[00:22:48] Greg: Oh 

[00:22:48] yeah, 

[00:22:48] Greg: yeah, yeah, 

[00:22:48] Brad: yeah, yeah. 

[00:22:49] Greg: You know, I don’t have my, anyway, so, um, so they said, when can you start? So I said, okay. How about this Friday? It was a Tuesday afternoon. I thought I’d like if they, I’m hoping that they [00:23:00] say gimme more time. And they did. They said This Friday’s too soon. How about next Friday? I was like, okay, fine.

[00:23:05] Greg: Next Friday. Yeah. And I just started, I started, but it was with the parole, like per, yeah. It’s parole you in the us. It’s people that 

[00:23:12] Aaron: organiz like get out early. 

[00:23:13] Greg: Yeah. The guys that are out early or they’re, they, they don’t go to prison. They do sent, they do, they serve sentence outside of prison. Okay. Yeah.

[00:23:20] Greg: And if they, if they violate that, they go to prison. 

[00:23:22] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:22] Greg: So in South Africa was called probation. 

[00:23:25] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:23:25] Greg: Here it’s called parole. So I started with, so they gave me 20 parole agents. 

[00:23:30] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:23:30] Greg: And then 40 parolees. 

[00:23:33] Brad: Mm. 

[00:23:33] Greg: So the, so the parole agents were on a Friday morning. The probation, the parole parolees themselves were 20 on a Sunday and 20 on a Monday.

[00:23:41] Brad: Mm. 

[00:23:42] Greg: And I just started, I was like, I don’t know what to do with them. So just, I started like starting the beginning of the book. 

[00:23:46] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:23:47] Greg: You know, definition of affinity, reality, communication. You know, therefore, what is, what is man, you know, man is spirit, mind, and body like, and these guys would just be like,[00:24:00] 

[00:24:00] Greg: but but impressed. ’cause they were getting the truth. Yeah. That’s the coolest thing. When you get the truth, it doesn’t matter. 

[00:24:08] Brad: Yeah, 

[00:24:08] Greg: guys could be like, okay, this is true, but I don’t wanna acknowledge, but it’s true. 

[00:24:13] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:24:13] Greg: So that’s a good point. Totally true. And these guys, yeah. I’ll never forget off the bat the third week, ’cause I had them, they gave me these, each 20 group, they gave me groups of 24, um, 10 weeks at a time.

[00:24:25] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:24:25] Greg: Now, we’d never done this before, just, just ne we’d never done this before. And I was, I was figuring this out as I was going along as a volunteer minister. We were like, what are volunteer ministers doing in the prisons? We’re supposed to be out helping society. And I was like, well, they asked. So we’re going, you know, 

[00:24:40] Aaron: I mean, they’re part of society.

[00:24:41] Aaron: It’s a 

[00:24:42] Brad: society. 

[00:24:42] Greg: It is true. And I had 60 a week. I wasn’t, stats were up, 

[00:24:45] Brad: dude. 

[00:24:45] Greg: You know, and it was guys who’d never heard and weren’t, weren’t winning. So the parole agents, after about the third or fourth week, came to me and were angry at me. And I was like, why are you so angry at me? They’re like, why didn’t we get this in school?

[00:24:58] Greg: Why would we never get, why did we [00:25:00] never get taught this in school? How to study, how do identify antisocial behaviors, how to be a success? And they were like, I’ll never forget, they were like, we would never have been parole agents, we would’ve been doctors or lawyers or business owners. That was their upset.

[00:25:14] Greg: Wow. They never got the true data. 

[00:25:17] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:25:17] Greg: On life. 

[00:25:18] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:25:18] Greg: At school. And I was like, that’s a good indicator. 

[00:25:22] Brad: Yeah, it 

[00:25:22] Greg: is. That means that these guys are getting it. And they they got it. They, I tell you what, we had so much fun. We had so much fun. I’m not, I, I like communication. I, I get involved. 

[00:25:33] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:25:33] Greg: Like, I’m not gonna sit there and go, okay, you guys sit there and do it, and I’ll figure you, I’ll watch you.

[00:25:38] Greg: I’m like, okay. So we, you know, so we had 20 parole agents, so I’d pair them up like Zulus with Africons guys and we’d pair them up. And, you know, when you’re doing the com course, you know, in the communication course, there’s one of the drills as you get through your first two drills and there’s Tier Zero bullbait, yeah.

[00:25:52] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:53] Greg: And I’d have them bullbait each other. 

[00:25:54] Aaron: So there’s Tier zero bullbait, you sit in front of each other, you’re there. And the one person. [00:26:00] Is trying to do anything possible to make the other guy angry, laugh, whatever. Distracted you were trying to get them to not be able to stand in and ah, like try to get ’em to punch you in the face or something.

[00:26:09] Greg: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:26:10] Aaron: And so that’s what, 

[00:26:10] Greg: and you gotta still do, you gotta still remain comfortable while the guys bull baiting you, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And these guys had the biggest wins. 

[00:26:18] Brad: Wow. 

[00:26:19] Greg: Because that racial barriers started just falling away. Oh, right. They were just starting to fall away and they were like, and there they became such a team.

[00:26:27] Greg: Mm-hmm. They became such a team and they started seeing what was true and what wasn’t true. Wow. What was true politically what was not true politically, what was true for them was that they needed help. So I did that. So I did that for three years and dude, it was cool. I’ll never forget we had a graduation at the, at the org one night, right?

[00:26:48] Greg: Yeah. And standing room only. Because they, the guy we had promoted then that I was doing a graduation with all these graduates. 

[00:26:54] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:26:55] Greg: And standing room only. And these guy and parole agents stood up and gave their success stories, [00:27:00] man. Whoa.

[00:27:03] Greg: Not a dry eye in the house. 

[00:27:05] Brad: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. 

[00:27:08] Greg: So 

[00:27:09] Aaron: what was like one is one of those stories. 

[00:27:10] Greg: So there one guy, guy, this one guy, I’ll never forget this one dude. He was like, ’cause this is, this is what this, and you find this out through working with these guys. So I didn’t know, but the parole agents, these probation agents had, so you’d have one probation agent and he’s got too many guys on his case to handle.

[00:27:28] Brad: Oh yeah. They’re overloaded. Yeah. 

[00:27:30] Greg: Overload. He is got 250 guys that he’s gotta see every week. He’s gotta see. Oh, crap. Or he, he’s gotta write. Yeah, 

[00:27:35] Brad: he’s gotta go to them. 

[00:27:36] Greg: He’s gotta go to them. Oh. They’ve gotta be at home and if Yeah. And so he’s like, how do I get through these hundreds of guys each weeks?

[00:27:43] Greg: Yeah. And then he is, then he is like, and then who knows, maybe they lie on their report. Well, I saw job and he, maybe they didn’t see him and he was, so this was his, he said, this was my attitude. Mm-hmm. I’d go to the parole’s house. He wasn’t there straight back to prison. Go to the next house if he’s not there.[00:28:00] 

[00:28:00] Greg: Didn’t care if he was where he was. Straight back to prison. He said, I was a tiger. I hated these guys. I was a Tiger. Said Then since doing these courses, I now know that they’re human beings and I know that I can communicate. Yeah. 

[00:28:12] Brad: Wow. 

[00:28:13] Greg: Yeah. My 

[00:28:15] Brad: gosh. 

[00:28:16] Greg: And you’re like, what? That’s, that’s the beauty of, 

[00:28:19] Brad: yeah.

[00:28:20] Greg: Applying l Ron Hub is technology. 

[00:28:21] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:28:22] Greg: You know, something can always be done about it. 

[00:28:24] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:28:24] Greg: Something can be, and these guys, so they were testament, they would just go, they would just go and promote. 

[00:28:30] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:31] Greg: So I did that for like three years and then, um. But the crime just, we weren’t denting. Yeah. The crime stats.

[00:28:39] Greg: The crime, just stats were just going up. And then, um, I got a call from cri, the criminal group had started up in South Africa, but my, my personal delivery with the volunteer ministers, with the pro probation is, was like 10 times the size of what the criminal guys were doing. Unfortunately, at the time, yeah, there were, there was like six guys.

[00:28:58] Greg: They were tiny, they were small. [00:29:00] And, um, so I got a call, could you please go see this chaplain who wants a briefing on criminal? And I’m like, send your criminal guys. I’m, I’m busy. I was married. I’m running at my own business. I’m, I’m, I’m the, I’m the diff c I’m the, the, the new public lecturer at the org.

[00:29:13] Greg: Yeah. I’m running, I’m running the VMs. I’m trying to get through my course, you know, I’m busy and they’re like, oh, but nobody will go like, okay, gimme the guy’s name. And so I grab a cri, but I’d always loved the criminal stories. 

[00:29:24] Brad: Mm. Yeah. 

[00:29:24] Greg: I’d seen guys be awarded the freedom medal, like Joan Stein, south African lady, but worked in la started doing pr, the criminal in the, in the, in the county jails in la and just the change.

[00:29:35] Greg: I was like, how is she doing that? You know? Amazing. So. So I knew we had results. Yeah. I always knew. I always knew. And I, there’s one thing I’ve always known is I’ll always, we will always, I’ll always get a stat with, I’ll always get a product with Scientology. 

[00:29:48] Brad: Yep. 

[00:29:48] Greg: It’ll always be a product. I’ll always get whatever that result is that Mr.

[00:29:52] Greg: Hait says, I’ll get, I will get. 

[00:29:53] Brad: Yep. Mm-hmm. That’s right. 

[00:29:54] Greg: Not, not through force, just through application. 

[00:29:56] Brad: Yep. 

[00:29:56] Greg: I’ll get it. Mm-hmm. So I was like, okay. So actually 

[00:29:58] Brad: with almost 

[00:29:59] Greg: [00:30:00] no force, 

[00:30:00] Brad: no force, just, 

[00:30:01] Greg: just, yeah. Yeah. 100% correct. So I learned that. Yeah. I’ve 

[00:30:06] Brad: learned it as well. 

[00:30:09] Greg: So, um, so, um, I know this is a long answer to your question.

[00:30:14] Greg: It’s a beautiful going, but, um, so I go to the prison, um, and it, it’s, it’s like near my birthday, like in May, 1999, right near my birthday and it’s in South Africa. Joburg, winters get cold. 6,000 feet of, is it winter 

[00:30:29] Aaron: in May? Over there? 

[00:30:30] Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:30:31] Brad: Oh, it’s 

[00:30:31] Greg: reversed. The, the seasons are reversed. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah.

[00:30:33] Greg: So, so, I mean, may is not exactly cold, but it starts getting cold and it’s dark early. Mm-hmm. And you just wanna be at home with coffee and Yeah. Yeah. You know, and, um, and I’m, so, I get to the prison, I’m like, okay. And I’d never been to prison. I’d been into prison into the admin side of prisons. Oh, 

[00:30:49] Aaron: because you’re working with the parole guys, 

[00:30:51] Greg: the probation parole, are we in the administration offices?

[00:30:53] Aaron: And you would, and you would deliver where, like where do you meet with them? 

[00:30:55] Greg: In the administration offices? 

[00:30:56] Aaron: Oh, in the prison 

[00:30:57] Greg: and, oh, so not in the prisons. I wouldn’t meet the [00:31:00] parole, no. ’cause they’re parolees. 

[00:31:01] Brad: Oh, got it. 

[00:31:01] Greg: Oh. And we actually, my business business partner and I, we actually bought an apartment so we could actually have a VM center so we could deliver to these guys.

[00:31:09] Aaron: Oh 

[00:31:10] Greg: wow. Right. So we delivered to them on a Monday night. So those guys would come through. Right. So 

[00:31:13] Aaron: you’d not been in there. Okay. 

[00:31:14] Greg: No. So I’d never been into a prison. Oh, okay. So I get there and I’m like, okay. And you, and it’s daunting ’cause you get there and you, the fences are, there’s, first of all, there’s like three fences and they’re all like.

[00:31:26] Greg: 15 feet high razor wire. And I’m like, who’s gonna try and escape? But I don’t know. I’m just looking at this going, wow, you know, it’s not exactly, let’s go and have a nice dinner. It is like, yeah, 

[00:31:38] Brad: yeah, 

[00:31:38] Greg: yeah. Okay. Real life. 

[00:31:40] Brad: Yeah, 

[00:31:40] Greg: real life, you know? So I going to the prison, I meet the chaplain, um, and he’s like, okay.

[00:31:48] Greg: I brief him. He is like, okay, this sounds good. Very beautiful man. Tall African man, beautiful. Rudolph, sch, slacker. Never forget this guy in my life. One of the most beautiful beings I’ve ever met. 

[00:31:59] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:59] Greg: [00:32:00] Beautiful man. Christian chaplain just cared. He just cared about the guys, you know? And you get these guys, you get these gems in corrections.

[00:32:07] Greg: There’s these gems of individuals that are just beautiful people, just a little bit frustrated with what’s not working. Mm-hmm. So, um, so I said to him, I need 50 guys. He’s like, what do you mean you need 50? I’m like, I need 50 guys to speak to you so I could get them interested to start doing the criminal program.

[00:32:23] Greg: And he is like, Greg, why 50? I’m like, Reverend. You know what we are like, we’re the murder capital of the world. At that time, South Africa was the murder capital of the world. 

[00:32:31] Brad: Wow. No way. Yeah. Wow. 

[00:32:33] Greg: Yeah. Yeah. Sad but true. 

[00:32:35] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:32:36] Greg: So he’s like, well, okay, I see your point. So he organizes, he organized. So the next week I go back.

[00:32:41] Greg: So now I get there and I’m like, okay, I’ve never done this before. Okay. What am I gonna do? I’m like, take, okay, I’ll take a copy of the way to happiness and I’ll take the criminal brochure and I’ll go in. Right. But here’s the interesting thing. You can’t deny your perceptions. Right? 

[00:32:54] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:32:54] Greg: So I’m walking in and what smell is one of your perceptions, and the first thing I smell is marijuana.

[00:32:58] Brad: Mm-hmm. [00:33:00] 

[00:33:00] Greg: And I’m like, what? You should, I shouldn’t be smelling this. This is a prison. 

[00:33:04] Brad: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:05] Greg: Yeah. And marijuana wasn’t legal then. 

[00:33:07] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:33:07] Greg: You know, and I’m like, but I can smell it. And I’m like, so I nudge the, I nudge the chaplain. I’m like, Hey, can you smell that? He goes, ah, you get used to it. 

[00:33:17] Brad: Wow. 

[00:33:18] Greg: Yeah.

[00:33:19] Greg: But I’m thinking to myself, so I’m a, I’m a trained Scientologist. Yeah. I’m thinking to myself. No ways, buddy. I didn’t say that to him, but I’m just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was the wildest thing. The wildest thing. It’s like, it was like, okay, I’m gonna own this place. Mm-hmm. I don’t know what made me think that.

[00:33:35] Greg: I was just like, I was looking at the guard. The guard could smell the marijuana doing nothing about it. 

[00:33:39] Brad: Dude, I’m getting jacked up in a good way from 

[00:33:40] Greg: Yes. Just, 

[00:33:42] Brad: yeah, 

[00:33:43] Greg: sorry. 

[00:33:43] Brad: Continue. 

[00:33:43] Greg: The chaplain couldn’t smell it. Not, he’s like, oh, you get used to it. Mm-hmm. You know, this is just how it is. Total 

[00:33:48] Brad: apathy.

[00:33:48] Greg: Yeah. And I’m like, no, no. Because I know when I drive home that night, when I drive home, I’m not gonna stop at traffic lights. I’m just gonna slow down and then zip through just in case there’s carjackers there. Right? There was the [00:34:00] scene in South Africa. 

[00:34:00] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:01] Greg: Right. So, so something was just like, okay, I’m gonna own this place.

[00:34:06] Brad: Wow. 

[00:34:07] Greg: So, but then you walk in, so then you go through and then I, then I’m thinking, okay, so the, because I’m a visitor, right? I’m a, you know, I’m a guest of the prison, they’re not gonna lock the gates ’cause I’m a guest. You know, like my, my, you didn’t know how it worked. Yeah, I didn’t know. So I walk that, they walk in clang and I’m like, I almost, I turned to the gun and I was like, why are you locking the gate?

[00:34:31] Greg: He’s like, it’s a prison.

[00:34:37] Greg: I’m like, oh my God. Okay. Walked to another gate. I’m like, they’re not gonna lock this one. Lock it. 

[00:34:43] I 

[00:34:43] Greg: was like, oh, 

[00:34:44] Brad: what? 

[00:34:45] Greg: Okay, okay, okay. Time to like get, get my like be present. Yeah. Be present 

[00:34:53] Brad: now. Now you’re, now it goes from I’m gonna own this place that I better own this place. Yes. 

[00:34:57] Greg: But yeah, but I never backed down.

[00:34:59] Greg: It was [00:35:00] interesting. Yeah. Was It was so wild. I was like, what is this? I just, even afterwards when I was driving, I was like. Anyway, we’ll get to that story. But so I walk through and now you can smell mm-hmm. Food. This food. I was like, oh my gosh, thank goodness. Thank goodness I’m not eating yet tonight. You just smell the horrible 

[00:35:15] Brad: food.

[00:35:15] Brad: Yeah. Wow. 

[00:35:15] Greg: And you just start picking up, okay. Looking at the place, like how degraded it is, and the guys, the prisoners, the inmates looking at me like, what are you doing yet? Six o’clock at night? 

[00:35:24] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:35:24] Greg: You know, or whatever time of the night. It was that, the evening that I was there and they were looking at me and I was just like, okay, I’m gonna greet them.

[00:35:30] Greg: Like, Hey, how you doing? Hey, how’s it going? How’s it going? How’s it going? So we walk down like about three levels and get to the, the chapel. Like, I was like, are we walking down into hell? Like, where are we going? You know, because we just kept going down, down, down into the prison and we get to the chapel and I walk in there and there’s 50 guys, right?

[00:35:45] Greg: Yeah. So I walk into the, so the chaplain’s like, walks me to the front of the, of, to the, of the guys. And he and he, he says, Hey guys, this is Greg. He’s gonna talk to you about criminal. And he leaves me. 

[00:35:55] Aaron: He is runs away. 

[00:35:56] Greg: Yeah. And I’m like, I was almost like, dude, where you going? Good luck. I [00:36:00] was like, confession.

[00:36:01] Greg: But I, but thankfully I didn’t, I was like, I looked at them and like, if I’m, if I’m gonna show I’m back door for chicken mm-hmm. He’s, they’re gonna be like, oh, we got this guy. 

[00:36:09] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:36:09] Greg: And it’s interesting. He said to me, you got 15 minutes to get their attention, or they get up and walk out. And I was like, how come?

[00:36:15] Greg: He says, no. The most of them just come because they want to get outta the cell. Yeah. And when you look at their conditions, you’re like, well, I would do the same. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Nay conditions. Right. So there you have these 50, you know, gangsters, murderers, you know, you name it. Right. They sit in there and I, and I’m thinking, okay, I’ve got 15 minutes and I’m thinking, I, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve been, I’ve lectured, I’ve given lectures to people.

[00:36:35] Greg: I’m, I can talk to people. Right. So I’m like, okay. And I start telling them zero response. 

[00:36:40] Brad: Oh. 

[00:36:41] Greg: Like, nothing, God’s like looking at me like this. 

[00:36:43] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:36:44] Greg: Like, no animosity, just like can’t wait for this to be over. Mm. So I’m like, and I’m talking and I’m like, I’m getting nowhere. Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:52] Aaron: I’m 

[00:36:52] Greg: getting nowhere. So, 

[00:36:54] Aaron: and how long is, how long are you getting?

[00:36:55] Aaron: Nowhere, like 

[00:36:56] Greg: so 12 minutes. I look at my watch. Thankfully I looked at my watch and I’ve go, oh, [00:37:00] I’ve been going for 12 minutes. I’ve got three minutes left before the first guys I get up and walking out and I’m thinking like, whoa, I’ve gotta handle this. I’m thinking, I’ve gotta get one guy. Of course I was like, I’m not coming yet to get nobody signed up.

[00:37:11] Greg: I’m gonna get, I’ve just gotta get one guy signed up, right? Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:14] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:37:15] Greg: I’ll never forget this. I like loosened my tie picked, the way it happened is book down and I was like, okay, I just dropped to their tone. 

[00:37:22] Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:37:23] Greg: I was too enthusiastic or too, 

[00:37:26] Brad: mm-hmm. 

[00:37:26] Greg: I don’t know, maybe Unreal, right? 

[00:37:28] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:28] Greg: So I dropped to that, like antagonism and I just went up to the first guy and I yelled, why the f are you in prison?

[00:37:37] Brad: Really? 

[00:37:37] Greg: Yep. He jumps outta the chair and I just yell at him, sit the F down, and he sits down. Boom. And I’m like, why are you in prison? And he is like, why you in prison? But 

[00:37:47] Aaron: how do you say it reenacted? Tell me. Like, say it. 

[00:37:50] Greg: I can I curse? Yes I can. We bleep it. Yeah. 

[00:37:53] Aaron: We’ll bleep it. Don’t worry. 

[00:37:54] Greg: Anyway, it was like, why the you in prison?

[00:37:56] Greg: Right. 

[00:37:56] Aaron: But you didn’t say it like that. That’s soft. 

[00:37:58] Greg: No, I yelled. They give us why I [00:38:00] don’t want you to do that. No, why not? Because, no, it’s, you’ll get the idea. Right, right. You know what I mean? It’s like, because it, 

[00:38:06] Aaron: it was in but full, like 

[00:38:07] Greg: full. Like it was like full on like wha And he jumped up and I was like, sit the F down.

[00:38:12] Greg: And he sits down and he’s looking at me like, and I’m not backing down. And he is like, I said, why are you in prison? And he tells me, 

[00:38:19] Brad: yeah. 

[00:38:20] Greg: Like, thank you. You next to him. Why the fuck are you in prison? 

[00:38:23] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:24] Greg: And he’s like, but I said, why are you in prison? And he’s like, and I said, thank you. And then I look up and all 50 are now looking at me.

[00:38:29] Brad: Mm-hmm. And 

[00:38:30] Greg: I’m like, and it was interesting, like a split second. I remember. Never forget. I’m like, yeah. Do I stop or do I carry on? And I was like, carry on. 

[00:38:37] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:37] Greg: And I carried on, but I stopped yelling. 

[00:38:39] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:40] Greg: And I started asking each guy nicely. Like, 

[00:38:42] Aaron: you got their attention. 

[00:38:43] Greg: Yeah. Had their attention. So I had them now.

[00:38:44] Greg: Yeah. I had their attention. Right? Yeah. They asked you, sir, why not you, sir? You, why are you in prison? Thank you. You, it was so funny. Like, these guys, they were guys like hiding beyond in, he’s like, I felt like a school teacher. Right. I’m like, I can see you sit up straight. And they’re like, whoa. [00:39:00] So, so, because the full thing I ask every guy, they tell me.

[00:39:05] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:39:06] Greg: And I’m like, you know, so I’m like, okay, thank you. Tell me. And then some of the crimes are like, okay, keep it. Yeah. 

[00:39:14] But 

[00:39:14] Aaron: give us an ex dude. What’s one that was like, just insane? 

[00:39:16] Greg: I mean, like rape. 

[00:39:17] Brad: Yeah, 

[00:39:18] Greg: yeah, 

[00:39:19] yeah. 

[00:39:19] Greg: He’s just like, okay. Because then, you know, I don’t wanna give my own stuff, come in and go, you know?

[00:39:24] Greg: ’cause I, I, I don’t like crime. 

[00:39:25] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:39:26] Greg: I don’t like, I don’t, I’ve lost family to crime. Mm-hmm. I don’t like it, but. I can’t. 

[00:39:32] Brad: Yep. 

[00:39:32] Greg: Judge the guy. He’s in prison. 

[00:39:34] Brad: Yep. Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:34] Greg: He’s been judged. 

[00:39:35] Brad: Yes. 

[00:39:36] Greg: And it’s, it’s quite a thing to go, 

[00:39:37] Brad: wow, 

[00:39:38] Greg: okay. You 

[00:39:38] Brad: gotta wait, wait. Can you say what you just said again? That’s, I’ve never thought about that.

[00:39:42] Greg: What do you mean 

[00:39:42] Brad: I can’t judge? He’s been in, he’s in prison, he’s 

[00:39:44] Greg: already been judged, he’s already been judged, he’s already been adjudicated. You’re a criminal. You’re gonna prison for the rest of your life, or for 40 years, whatever. 

[00:39:51] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:39:52] Greg: Why am I gonna come in and say, nah, what’s that gonna do to me? Oh, wow.

[00:39:56] Greg: But that’s what gets done. The 

[00:39:57] Brad: way you said it just now was like, so I’m, [00:40:00] 

[00:40:00] Aaron: it clicked for me 

[00:40:01] right 

[00:40:01] Greg: there. Oh, yeah. 

[00:40:01] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:40:02] Greg: But it’s, that’s what happens to them. Yeah. They just keep getting judged. 

[00:40:05] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:40:05] Greg: Every day. And I’m like, what’s that gonna do? Right. Yeah. So, because, you know, prisons are colleges of crime. You learn how to become a better criminal in, in prisons of crime.

[00:40:14] Greg: Mr. Har said that they’re colleges of crime, they become better criminals. They learn how to become better robbers or better gangsters or whatever. All makes sense, right? 

[00:40:21] Brad: Sense. Yeah. 

[00:40:21] Greg: So I finished the last guy thank him. I step back and I say to them, thank you for telling me your crimes. I have. Zero interest in your crimes.

[00:40:33] Greg: Mm. And they just like blow down like, oh, oh, what do you want from us? Seriously. That was their response. They’re like, oh, okay. Okay. Um, what do you want from us? I’m like, I need your help. I need your help to change this country. I said, you know, we’re the murder capital of the world and you know, when I drive home, I’m in more chance of getting mugged and, and, and project than you are seeing this prison.

[00:40:57] Greg: I need your help. 

[00:40:59] Brad: Yeah. [00:41:00] 

[00:41:00] Greg: They were like, but we’re in prison. I’m like, is this prison in South Africa? They were like, yes. And I, I still kept their tone level, right. And they were like, yes. I said, so I need your help. And they were like, okay, what do we do? And I was like, oh. So then I, then I realized what I was there for.

[00:41:14] Greg: Then I grabbed the way to happiness book. So my 15 minutes turned into two and a half hours. Wow. We had a blast. 

[00:41:22] Brad: Mm-hmm. Because 

[00:41:23] Greg: I took the way to happiness and started clearing the words, what’s definition of happiness? Okay. Gimme examples of happy. Dude, don’t ask guys to give you to give. It’s funny. And we would just be like, okay, let’s talk about happiness.

[00:41:36] Greg: It doesn’t include sex and drugs and that stuff. Just ha. And they’d be like, oh yes, I remember. And then they’d say like, oh, I could do this. This is the definition of happiness. Right? Yeah. And then, you know, and we went over, take care of yourself. We did the whole precept of take care of yourself. 

[00:41:50] Brad: Yeah.

[00:41:51] Greg: Right. And these guys. And we couldn’t keep guys quiet from being, from being like this for me in the beginning to like just [00:42:00] free for all of communication. 

[00:42:01] Brad: Wow. 

[00:42:02] Greg: And we were having a blast. The chaplain, I’ll never forget it, he’s standing at the back of the hall, these eyes are this big. I forget. He said to me, Greg, at at the end, he says, Greg, you know when you did the cursing at them?

[00:42:14] Greg: I thought, oh my God, they’re gonna kill the white man. It was, uh, and I was like, those, those matter. But he was like, so he was super happy. These guys were happy, but he had to go. 

[00:42:26] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:42:27] Greg: And all of us were so mad that we had to end the lecture, but we had to end. Right? 

[00:42:30] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:42:31] Greg: So I said to the guys, okay, you want me to come back?

[00:42:33] Greg: I’ll come back. I get a call like three days later, come, the guys want you back. Right. So I’m thinking, okay. Had 50 guys, the literacy level is very low. 

[00:42:43] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:42:43] Greg: So I’m probably gonna have about 10. 

[00:42:45] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:45] Greg: Thinking. Okay, cool. I go there, we get 10 guys, we get rolling. Yeah. I had 10 guys on course because I didn’t get their names the first time, but I was like, okay.

[00:42:52] Greg: But Oh, driving home that night. 

[00:42:55] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:42:57] Greg: I was so, yeah, I was so, like, I [00:43:00] just came, I just spoke to 50 of the worst of the worst. 

[00:43:03] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:43:04] Greg: And they’re not the worst of the worst. 

[00:43:07] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:43:07] Greg: They’re not, they’re not. They, they, they’re in prison for doing horrible stuff. And And what did you realize? 

[00:43:14] Brad: They were, 

[00:43:15] Greg: I was just, they’re, they’re being, they’re, they’re being, they’re human being.

[00:43:19] Greg: Not that I should be easy on them or not that I should not, not that I should be, you know, I just like, I can’t forgive. Everybody can’t forgive, you know? It’s like, okay, the guy’s there doing his term. What, what is it gonna help if I’m gonna be there? Like, okay, every day needs to be horrible for you. How’s it he’s going to, he’s gonna take that every day Horrible.

[00:43:39] Greg: And do it to somebody else. Mm. So why don’t we flip that? 

[00:43:41] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:42] Greg: Why don’t we just flip that and have him be like, okay, dude. Not that you’re a saint, but you can be. Yeah. You can be, you know, there’s an interesting thing with criminal program. We have these guys work their way into being accepted. Wow.

[00:43:55] Greg: That’s the coolest thing. These guys do work to get accepted. Like you do [00:44:00] your, you know, you do your lower conditions, you know? Mm-hmm. You work their way through, they, like, you have stories Anyway, it’s just, it’s just miraculous what you can do with guys. Who are interested. 

[00:44:09] Brad: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:44:09] Greg: You know? And the majority of them are.

[00:44:11] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:44:12] Greg: The majority of ’em are. So driving home that night, I was on the phone to my wife. I couldn’t stop talking when I got home. I couldn’t wait to tell everybody at work the next day. I was like, you won’t believe what I did. And a lot of guys were like, why are you doing that? Why are you gonna prison and you nuts?

[00:44:26] Greg: Why are you gonna prison? And I’m like, we’re the murder capital of the world. 

[00:44:29] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:44:30] Greg: Shouldn’t we been addressing that? And they’ll be like, 

[00:44:32] Aaron: yeah, but 

[00:44:33] Greg: you know. Yeah. But you know, and I’m someone 

[00:44:35] Brad: else. 

[00:44:35] Greg: Yeah. Or, or like, no, they did something nasty. I’m like, I know. You’ve never done anything nasty, huh? Mm-hmm.

[00:44:40] Greg: You’re perfect. 

[00:44:41] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:42] Greg: Right? Yeah. Yeah. Shut up. I’ll be like, yeah, shut up yourself. You know what, it’s, it’s like, it just was like interesting. Like it was, it was actually a good confront process even for our field. 

[00:44:52] Brad: Wow. ‘

[00:44:52] Greg: cause you has somebody like me, I’d spoken, very involved, very active. And I’m coming to graduation.

[00:44:58] Greg: I’m saying, I need guys, I [00:45:00] need your help. I need, I need volunteers. I need you guys to come into prisons with me, or I need you to grade lessons. And they’re going, why? I said, because I have 200 names of guys who want to change. 

[00:45:09] Brad: Wow. 

[00:45:10] Greg: But this happens to check this out. So go. Anyway, I jumped, I jumped, I jumped.

[00:45:13] Greg: You skipped it when you went back. Yeah, I skipped. I’m sorry. So go to, um, go back the next week and, um, I’m ready this time I’ve got my book ready. I’m like, I know what we’re gonna do. And you know, I walk now, now I think I own the prison. I walk in, I expect the guy to remember me. He is like, I, Isaiah last week.

[00:45:29] Greg: He is like, yes. So I was like, God damn, I don’t remember anybody. Get down to where I am. So I’m, I’m sitting outside the chapel and I’m waiting now inside the chapel, I hear. He’s like a hundred men singing, you know Chris, they’re having their crystal, their Christian services, right? 

[00:45:44] Brad: Yeah, man, 

[00:45:46] Greg: African men singing gospel.

[00:45:48] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:45:48] Greg: Ah, dude, come on. It is the best thing to hear. No, just an organ and vocals. Yeah. And you hear them singing and ah, and I’m just, I’m sitting outside and I’m like, this is cool, but like, where’s my criber on guys? 

[00:45:59] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:45:59] Greg: And I’m [00:46:00] waiting and I’m waiting. Nobody’s coming. So I, I, I go inside the chapel. 

[00:46:06] Aaron: Yeah.

[00:46:07] Greg: Just to see is like anybody, nobody. These guys sing it. And the guy playing the organ, he, he pushes his organ to the chair back and he sees me, right? And he stops and he goes, Hey Greg, we’ve been waiting for you. And I’m like, what? He goes, yeah, we’ve all just been singing, but we are all waiting for you standing room only a hundred guys in the chapel.

[00:46:29] Greg: And I’m like, okay. I grabbed my bed, my, my, my, my, my book. And I walked down the middle and I, but when I turned around right, and I. I was, ’cause the dudes that had been, the guys that had been there the week before mm-hmm. Had done the precept, showered, shaved, washed them nine their clothes. Wow. They were, they stood out like, like, like these, um, what’s that cool word when there’s like differences?

[00:46:54] Greg: Like, uh, there’s this cool word, I forget the word now, but it’s like tapestry. Like a tapestry where there’s bright [00:47:00] colors and dark colors, right? Yeah. And there were these bright guys, 50 bright guys and another 60 or so, or 50 or 60 guys all like, who’s this guy? And they close it and they all man you. And then some one guy’s like, I never forget this, the guy’s like this in his shit.

[00:47:13] Greg: Like, Mr. Greg, Mr. Greg. I’m like, what? He goes, I gave up smoking marijuana. I was like, well done. Now I’m thinking to myself, we haven’t even come to, yeah, we haven’t come to that 

[00:47:23] Brad: yet. Yeah. 

[00:47:24] Greg: But this guy’s already, he’s already got it decided. 

[00:47:26] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:47:27] Greg: I’m giving up smoking weed. 

[00:47:28] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:47:28] Greg: From take care of yourself.

[00:47:30] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:47:30] Greg: So I was like, 

[00:47:31] Brad: it 

[00:47:31] Greg: makes sense. I’m doing this. I was like, wow. I was like, when I saw this response, I’m like, I am doing this. I’m, I don’t care what I need to do. I don’t care what happens. I don’t care. I am doing this. So I just was like, so anyway, so I get sign those 50 guys up, go back to the criminal office.

[00:47:47] Greg: The one that we were busy making hand the names in. I’m like, let’s get guys on up. They’re like, we have no volunteers. I’m like, okay. Graduation, go to graduation at johannesburg org. Speak to the speak at, you know that in those days, graduation wasn’t instructed as it is [00:48:00] now, right? Yeah. Yeah. It’d be like, who is a win?

[00:48:01] Greg: Me, me, me. I had a win run to the front and pour my heart out, right? All emotional, pour it out and I say, I need guys to sign up. I need you to volunteer. They’d be like, yeah, I’m not gonna come to prison with you, but I’ll volunteer. Like, good. Then I’d go to johannesburg north org and speak at graduation there, and I just did that week in and week out in four weeks.

[00:48:20] Greg: I 200 guys on course. 

[00:48:21] Brad: Wow. 

[00:48:22] Greg: In four weeks. 

[00:48:22] Brad: Amazing. 

[00:48:23] Greg: In one prison, and I was like. This, this means they’re looking for help. 

[00:48:27] Brad: That’s 

[00:48:27] Greg: right. Mm-hmm. And they’re looking for answers. 

[00:48:28] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:48:29] Greg: And what I was communicating was working, so I changed the pattern. I didn’t keep that pattern of why they air for you in prison.

[00:48:37] Greg: I changed that. You didn’t do that 

[00:48:37] Aaron: again? 

[00:48:38] Greg: No, I never did that again. But because, but I started, you know, using survey technology, right? Yeah. So I, I figured a survey like, okay, ’cause this is what I found. 90% of the guys have been to prison more than once. 

[00:48:49] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:48:50] Greg: More than twice. 

[00:48:51] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:52] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:48:52] Greg: So it’d be a survey question to get the guys interested.

[00:48:55] Greg: Okay, I have a hundred guys in the room. Who, have you been to prison more than once? [00:49:00] All the hands go up, like, okay, twice. All the hands go up. Three times. 80% of the hands go up. 

[00:49:05] Brad: Yeah. Wow. 

[00:49:06] Greg: Four times 70% of the hands go up. I’m like, whoa. And then I’d say this, you guys like it here, huh?

[00:49:15] Greg: And the tea, they, the 

[00:49:16] Brad: what was, what was the what? How did they respond? What they gonna say? 

[00:49:19] Greg: They’d be like, no, we hate it. And I’d be like, oh, how do, how come you come? 

[00:49:24] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:49:26] Greg: Oh, we don’t know. Or excuses. I’d be like, you want a solution? 

[00:49:30] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:49:30] Greg: You guys wanna try a solution? 

[00:49:31] Brad: Wow. 

[00:49:32] Greg: With this book, maybe you won’t come back.

[00:49:35] Greg: Sign up. I would just, guys would just sign up, like, just, wow. Sign up because IZ in the true button. I wasn’t, I was not there to pr them or tell them that they’re gonna go to heaven with all due respect or they’re gonna go someplace. It was just like, you’ve 

[00:49:49] Aaron: been to prison five times, 

[00:49:50] Greg: you’ve been to prison five times.

[00:49:52] Greg: Why are you coming back? 

[00:49:53] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:54] Greg: Do you wanna come back? No, I don’t wanna. Okay. Why? 

[00:49:57] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:49:57] Greg: And it would just be like, okay, what if there was an answer there? They wanted the [00:50:00] answer. 

[00:50:00] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:50:00] Greg: And thankfully we have the answer. So it was just like starting like that and just refined that pattern. And we’ve now made it like the, the standard way to disseminate criminal end prisma.

[00:50:11] Greg: You wanna, you wanna get Yeah. And then also ask the guys. Very interesting. Right? ’cause you wanna, ’cause the one thing I always do is I, I, I, I, I, I took, I made this decision. I’m never gonna speak to a cri. 

[00:50:23] Brad: Mm. 

[00:50:24] Greg: Yeah. I’m gonna speak to the being. Yeah. I’m gonna speak to the individual because if I speak to him as a criminal, I’m not gonna get anywhere.

[00:50:30] Brad: Dude. That’s smart. 

[00:50:31] Greg: Yeah. That is. I’m just gonna speak to an individual. And then the criminal, if he’s there, he’ll, he’ll leave by himself. Yeah. Which happened many times. You know, I got threatened, guys threatened to kill me. I’m like, okay. In the prison. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Get in the line. 

[00:50:45] Brad: Wow. 

[00:50:47] Greg: You know, but it’s, but, but it’s, and it’s interesting, like Yeah.

[00:50:49] Greg: The true, the true suppressive personality 

[00:50:51] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:50:52] Greg: Is a coward. 

[00:50:53] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:50:53] Greg: Weak coward. 

[00:50:55] Brad: Yeah’s 

[00:50:55] Greg: true. Doesn’t like people to get 

[00:50:56] Brad: completely true. 

[00:50:57] Greg: Doesn’t like people to do well. Doesn’t want anybody [00:51:00] around him to do well. 

[00:51:00] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:51:01] Greg: Hates the fact that they’d be change, hates the fact that there’d be improvement, hates it.

[00:51:05] Greg: Mm-hmm. With knife, with violence. 

[00:51:08] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:08] Greg: To stop any improvement. 

[00:51:09] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:09] Greg: And I’d be like, I don’t care. 

[00:51:11] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:11] Greg: This is just the body. I don’t care. 

[00:51:13] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:51:14] Greg: And I’m not afraid to defend it either. You know? I definitely, I definitely am not, I’m definitely am not aggressive or antagonistic, but I’m, I’m definitely not gonna be, you know, like I’m not going to, I’m not gonna accept somebody trying to 

[00:51:26] Brad: Yeah.

[00:51:27] Greg: Ram Rod my program or stop me from doing mm-hmm. Something like that. Yeah. I don’t need to feel guilty or feel, you know, whatever, because I’m like, what, what we are offering is miraculous. 

[00:51:38] Brad: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:39] Greg: You can’t get this anywhere. Yeah. You just, you just don’t. 

[00:51:42] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:51:43] Greg: You just don’t. And it, and it’s so, I’m so happy and so fortunate that I could see that with the worst of the worst.

[00:51:50] Greg: And the best of the best to just see, like, you don’t get products like this anywhere else. 

[00:51:55] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:55] Greg: Our planets, this civilization is not used to results. 

[00:51:58] Brad: Yeah. Mm-hmm. That’s true. 

[00:51:59] Greg: Not [00:52:00] used to getting results. 

[00:52:00] Brad: Completely true. 

[00:52:01] Greg: Look at, look at the field of the mental health. They’re not, people are not used to getting fixed, so they just, oh, and psychologists and psychiatrists are messing up and they have been for hundreds years, but they have a profession, so.

[00:52:10] Greg: Yeah. ’cause people are not used to results. Yeah. And then we bring Mr. Hub’s technology in and bam, we get results. And people are like, what do you mean you get results? Yeah. Yeah. We get results. 

[00:52:18] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:52:18] Greg: We get the results. You wanna be happy, you wanna have your, get your potential. Yes, I do. 

[00:52:23] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:52:23] Greg: You wanna have, you know, here it is.

[00:52:25] Greg: Do this, do this. You will get, you’ll regain your potential. And there’s no, it’s just, so the thing to do is to just keep doing what we’re doing. Mm-hmm. Just keep doing it and just keep putting, you know, just add fire to the flame. Mm-hmm. Just, you know, like, you know, like chairman of the board said one day, just put your foot through the, don’t put your foot on the fed, but what, what did he say?

[00:52:44] Greg: Don’t something like, don’t put your pedal to the metal, put it through the floorboard, you know, type of thing. Like, just let’s go. 

[00:52:51] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:52:52] Greg: Because there’s so much workability and there’s so much success. 

[00:52:55] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:52:55] Greg: You know? Um, so do they 

[00:52:57] Aaron: normally have like psychologists in the prison as 

[00:52:59] Greg: well? Oh, [00:53:00] yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:53:00] Greg: Social workers. Yeah, I was wondering 

[00:53:01] Aaron: about that. Yeah. 

[00:53:01] Greg: Social, they, they’re called social workers. A lot of them. And, um, or they, or they’re, yeah, they’re, they’re trained. You know, they’re, they’re, they’re the social workers or they’ll be the, um, programs officers ran into that. You know, here’s the big difference that I ran into compared to South Africa and, and then the western countries.

[00:53:21] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:21] Greg: In the US there’s a, there’s a lot. That’s a, one of the biggest barriers is. The guys that know all the psychologists, the social workers, that they know what to do, but don’t get results. 

[00:53:32] Brad: Mm. 

[00:53:33] Greg: It’s, it’s sad. ’cause you see them, you see those individuals with this failed goal. 

[00:53:39] Brad: Mm-hmm. ‘

[00:53:40] Greg: cause they just know that they’re, in their mind, there’s no solution.

[00:53:43] Greg: So they’re just gonna do it. 

[00:53:44] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:53:44] Greg: And they’ll do their best. You know, and it’s like, um, like I think I, I’m jumping a bit, but it’s just, that’s 

[00:53:51] Brad: great. 

[00:53:51] Greg: It’s just, it’s just the fact that there’s, we, we crimmon and the way to happiness and the courses that are education based mm-hmm. [00:54:00] Education based handle all the criminogenic, which is a term that is due that all the, the, the, the, the what does it, 

[00:54:05] Brad: what does that mean?

[00:54:06] Greg: It means the basic reason why the person’s a criminal and you want to handle that problem. So, you know, um. The ability to get a job, the ability to study, the ability, the, the, the fortitude not to commit a crime again. Mm-hmm. You know, you get guys that are just restraining themselves. Mm-hmm. So what they try and do is they restrain them with medication or drugs, which doesn’t work.

[00:54:27] Greg: Of course. It doesnt work. 

[00:54:28] Brad: Yeah, of course. 

[00:54:28] Greg: You know, we, we know that doesn’t work. It’s never worked. It’s never gonna work. It’s very costly. 

[00:54:32] Aaron: It’s very costly. 

[00:54:33] Greg: That’s the thing. Whoa. Give you an idea, and I know we jumping a bit, but when I came to the US and I started confronting the US scene 

[00:54:40] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:54:40] Greg: Just California’s budget.

[00:54:43] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:54:44] Greg: For prisons. Just prisons. $15 billion a year just for prisons. 

[00:54:50] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:54:50] Greg: 15 billion. That’s 

[00:54:51] Brad: crazy. 

[00:54:52] Greg: And the wor one of the worst recidivism rates in the country. 

[00:54:56] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:57] Greg: It’s, it’s like, what are you paying for? 

[00:54:59] Brad: [00:55:00] Yeah. 

[00:55:00] Greg: You know what, and it’s sad, but it’s just a fact. And you go around the country and the recidivism rates are high and they don’t need, they don’t need to be.

[00:55:08] Greg: Mm-hmm. They don’t need to be. 

[00:55:09] Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:10] Greg: You know, 

[00:55:10] Aaron: and, and when you in, in Ingo, when you wouldn’t go there. You had that result. You went to the next one. You went to the next one. You’re just finding easy to get in there and 

[00:55:16] Greg: Yeah. Well, the word of mouth was crazy. 

[00:55:19] Aaron: I has to 

[00:55:19] Greg: be because you, because I had guys, I’ll never forget Kru start, the one prisoner was in the west of Johannesburg, right?

[00:55:24] Greg: Bam, bam, bam, ba bam, we’re going in there. Next thing, okay, okay, I’m gonna call another prison and go call the prisoner on the east. Go and visit them. The, they were the, the warden of the prison’s like, I don’t know if we need you. So I’m like, okay. So go. I walk out of his office and go to the office next door and I’m like, Hey, do you guys have any good programs here?

[00:55:41] Greg: And they’re like, no, not really. I’m like, would you like this program? I started speaking and I found the programs person speak to her. She’s like, yeah, come down, come meet the inmates. I go down to speak to the inmates, get them rolling. About six months later, I’m doing a graduation in his prison, and he’s coming to the graduation and he walks in and I’m there and he is like, how did you get in?

[00:55:59] Greg: I’m like, yep, that’s my [00:56:00] program. And his and his social workers are like, dude, this is the best program. And he is like, oh, okay. So just, just results. 

[00:56:09] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:56:10] Greg: Here’s, here’s the interesting thing that I also took this viewpoint of, right? It was like. I was not gonna A, I didn’t want the government’s approval. 

[00:56:17] Brad: Mm.

[00:56:18] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:56:18] Greg: I didn’t want their approval until we had enough results where the ground was like grassroots movement, right? Mm-hmm. You just get so many guys demonstrating this incredible rehabilitation and this incredible restoration of self-respect, and you have them be the examples and then you have their guards and the social workers demanding the pro the project and demanding the program and start calling that themselves.

[00:56:42] Greg: Then I’m like, okay, good. Now we can start. Then government acceptance is easy ’cause they got the results because they don’t believe that there’s a result. They don’t believe that something will work. Wow. You know, and it’s, and it’s rough, but I was like, the only way we’re gonna do this is through demonstration.

[00:56:55] Greg: Through actual application. 

[00:56:57] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:56:58] Greg: You know, application of, and [00:57:00] like the chaplain, the first chaplain, he was like, Greg, your results are like, we’ve never seen results like that. 

[00:57:04] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:57:05] Greg: You know? 

[00:57:05] Brad: I was gonna ask, did he accuse you of performing a miracle? 

[00:57:10] Greg: You know, um, he didn’t say it in those words, but he was very, very grateful.

[00:57:14] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:57:15] Greg: Very, very. His job became so much easier. Their jobs become so much easier. They don’t have to worry about being attacked. You know, in prison you have the, there’s a culture. There is a culture where you have you in gangs, you, if you’re part of a gang, if you attack a, an official or an officer, you, you, you, you go up in rank in the gang.

[00:57:39] Brad: Oh, wow. 

[00:57:39] Greg: So sometimes in, some, in, in those instances, you have the guards, like on high alert, like the guys are they always tense? 

[00:57:46] Brad: Yeah. ‘

[00:57:47] Greg: cause they’re not sure. And in this like a Oh, so, uh, because 

[00:57:50] Brad: basically the inmate gets socially rewarded for 

[00:57:53] Greg: attacking gang attack guards his gang by his own gang. 

[00:57:55] Yeah. 

[00:57:55] Greg: Wow.

[00:57:55] Greg: Yeah. Yeah. I mean that’s, it’s, you learn these things. I didn’t know this before I did this [00:58:00] where mm-hmm. I was like, wow, I didn’t know that. 

[00:58:01] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:58:01] Greg: You know, and I’m not in the prison. 20 hours a week, I’m in there several hours a week. I’m just 

[00:58:07] Brad: yeah. 

[00:58:07] Greg: Handing, handing what I’m doing and then, you know, finding that the guy then, you know, two hours, then I’m gone to the next prison.

[00:58:12] Greg: So I’m not there experiencing their day-to-day life, but I start getting told the stories and we start seeing in the guys’ answers, you know, because Oh yeah, because you start, you, you’re asking for applications. 

[00:58:23] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:23] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:58:23] Greg: You know, you’re asking for application of each precept of the way it happens is they’ve gotta, they’ve gotta go and do it.

[00:58:29] Greg: They’ve gotta go and practice that, you know, and then you get to the virtues, you know. 

[00:58:33] Aaron: Let’s get, let’s get into that, like an example. So, so I want you to share, like, so how many people do you know that you’ve helped get through this program? 

[00:58:43] Greg: Personally or just overall 

[00:58:45] Aaron: with you or your positioner, let’s say?

[00:58:47] Aaron: Uh, I mean either. 

[00:58:49] Greg: Well, overall it would be thousands. 

[00:58:52] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:52] Greg: Probably tens of thousands. 

[00:58:53] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:54] Greg: But individually, I would say a couple hundred. Mm-hmm. Like, or close to that. Mm-hmm. With [00:59:00] and, and, and helping guys. It was interesting, uh, the guys that I helped, for some reason became leaders. 

[00:59:05] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:59:06] Greg: And I didn’t choose them.

[00:59:07] Greg: I just, they just ended up that I was working with them, getting 

[00:59:10] them. 

[00:59:10] Aaron: That’s that. When you mean by like a couple hundred 

[00:59:12] Greg: meter 

[00:59:13] Aaron: grading the lesson, you actually grading the 

[00:59:14] Greg: lesson, 

[00:59:14] Aaron: grading the lessons. And what about you getting them like on like, you started them and someone got ’em through? Oh, 

[00:59:18] Greg: oh gosh, I don’t know how many, I can’t tell you.

[00:59:21] Greg: I’ll ne I’ll never forget one prison, um, was in the south of Johannesburg and they, they, they couldn’t get all the guys into the, into the chapel, so they said, just use the yard. Oh, 

[00:59:34] Brad: wow. 

[00:59:34] Greg: The yard. So I, right. There’s 500 guys in the yard. So I’m like, how am I gonna do this? So I said, I asked the guard, Hey, can you, can you put a table?

[00:59:42] Greg: So I said, I said I saw a table there and I had, I asked him if he could just sort of scooch the guys into like one section of the yard. 

[00:59:49] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:59:50] Greg: So I was like, okay. And then I could, so I, I, I asked him for a table. So I stood up on the table 

[00:59:55] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:59:55] Greg: And I did my thing, right? Like Yeah. You know, hands up, like, and I was, you know, having to turn [01:00:00] around ’cause some of the guys were behind me, but 500 guys right.

[01:00:03] Greg: And I did my whole thing and then I said, who’s interested? Right? And 480 guys get up and start walking towards me. The guards start blowing the whistle alarms. Woo. I’m like, what’s going on? They’re like, they’re trying to kill you. I’m like, no, no, they’re not. They wanna sign up on the program again, the guard grab me like, this 

[01:00:22] Brad: is a different kind of reach.

[01:00:22] Brad: Yes. 

[01:00:23] Greg: The guard, the guard, the guard grabs me around the throat, pulls me outta this out of the yard. So I’m like, no, they’re not trying to kill me. They just wanna sign up. So he is like, well, stay up. Stay up by the, so they put me behind the bars on that side and I just, so I handed out, I, I had, thankfully I had tons of paper with me.

[01:00:39] Greg: So I had guys took in 480 names that morning. Wow. From one, just one prison. They’re the guys who were interested. Like, it was like, this is incredible. It was so funny. So I’ll never forget, I walk into the criminal office and I’m like, he has four 80 names. I’m leaving. And they’re like, no, we need help recruiting.

[01:00:56] Greg: It’s like, don’t worry about it. Let’s go recruit. Let’s go get volunteers. [01:01:00] But you know, we had 50, we had an, we had like, you don’t do this by yourself. 

[01:01:03] Brad: Yeah, of course. 

[01:01:04] Greg: This takes a team and. Just the, the, the, the guys that I work with and they’ve worked with and love. Just incredible. 

[01:01:12] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:01:12] Greg: Just so, just so, Hmm.

[01:01:18] Greg: Yeah.

[01:01:21] Aaron: You wanna give a shout out? 

[01:01:23] Greg: Yeah. This like, um, this one girl who’s an amazing friend, um, he, Helena Larocca. She’s Hena. Yeah. She used to be Helena Wilson in, in South Africa. Like, I got her interested in working with us, right. And she’s like, what are you doing? I’ll tell you. And I told her about it. And she like, comes in, she became the executive director.

[01:01:43] Greg: I wore the hat as the president because I was like, there’s no ways I can be an ed. I’d want to be out there. I wanna make it reign. 

[01:01:49] Brad: And executive director’s, like, basically like the CEO? 

[01:01:51] Greg: Yes. Running the organization. She, she’s running the organization. Right. So she organized us. Brilliant. 

[01:01:55] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:01:55] Greg: Brilliant.

[01:01:55] Greg: Organizing, just fantastic. And then, um, you know, and then guys [01:02:00] like Kevin Jones, who was also awarded the Freedom Medal for the work done in Rwanda. You know, we did the, the every prison in Rwanda. Just, just, 

[01:02:06] Brad: oh, we haven’t talked about them. 

[01:02:08] Greg: Didn’t just, I mean, there’s so much to talk about. Yeah. But it’s just these, you know, y in Florida, the guys like, you know, Cheryl Caputo, Alison Dennis, just, you know, Lorena, Roy, Noriega, just, you know, Susan Krieger, just, um, Susan Rotten, just beings like unfor, you know, the guys that have passed.

[01:02:25] Greg: Rick Pry, like Rick just was like, yeah, he did stuff in Mexico prisons with like actually having inside the full detox and criminal program in the prison. 

[01:02:37] Brad: Wow. 

[01:02:37] Greg: Full on confronting drug cartel, confronting those guys. Just like miraculous. Just miraculous. There are so many incredible, incredible guys that are that.

[01:02:48] Greg: And, and, and it’s interesting. It takes, uh, I don’t know if it takes something special, but there’s something quite sassy about, you know, I work for, I rehabilitate criminals. Like, you know, or I’m helping guys that are supposed to be the worst of the worst. Yeah. Because it [01:03:00] turns out they’re not the worst of the worst.

[01:03:01] Brad: Mm. 

[01:03:02] Greg: Like, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll give you a story where. This one guy in the first prison that I went to went to this guy, his name was, um, just use his initials iz, right? So he’s now the, I didn’t know, but he was the shot caller. Like he called the shots in the prison. Even the guards listened to him. He had his in a prison packed with inmates.

[01:03:21] Greg: He had his own private cell to himself. 

[01:03:23] Brad: Wow. 

[01:03:23] Greg: Yeah. Two cells to himself. Everybody else was crammed into, into cells. And um, and he comes to me and he’s done 10 lessons, right? And he is like, this course is turning my brain inside out. And I’m like, Ugh, it’s horrible because I got this, it was interesting. I got this like horrible picture of a brain.

[01:03:40] Greg: Like, I was like, what do you mean by that? I said, yeah. I said, what do you mean by that? He said, well, whatever this course you’re talking about, take care of yourself, honor and love people don’t commit, don’t be honest, all this stuff, whatever this course says, I do the opposite. I live my life the opposite.

[01:03:55] Greg: And I’m like, what do you mean? He says, well, if you want anything in this prison, I get it. I can [01:04:00] organize your stolen car. I can organize the drugs, I can organize the sex, anything you want. I’m the man to get it in the prison. 

[01:04:05] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:04:06] Greg: So this course is not, is totally messing with me. 

[01:04:09] Brad: Wow. 

[01:04:10] Greg: Then I said, okay, I agree with you.

[01:04:11] Greg: It’s the 

[01:04:11] Brad: exact opposite. 

[01:04:12] Greg: Exact opposite. I said, I agree. We are the exact opposite to what you’re doing. I agree. So he is like, he didn’t expect me to agree with him. I was like, well what do you want me to say? You disagree. I agree with you. You, we we’re the exact opposite. So he’s like, yeah. And I, and I, I think to myself, I, I want, I wanna see how I can handle him, right?

[01:04:29] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:04:30] Greg: Handle in a way that I wanna keep him on. 

[01:04:31] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:04:31] Greg: Because of course, he’s a guy. If he’s done 10 lessons Yeah. 

[01:04:33] Brad: He’s done 10 

[01:04:34] Greg: and he’s going through, he’s going through some personal stuff. Right. I’m like, this is good. 

[01:04:38] Brad: And he must be originating. ’cause he wants the, he 

[01:04:40] Greg: wants help. I didn’t ask him if the, is the court turning your, is the course turning your brain?

[01:04:43] Greg: He inside, he came and said it to me. You know, I didn’t even ask for a response. 

[01:04:47] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:04:47] Greg: And he said to me, so I said, well, how long do you still have to go? How long do you still go to spending prison? They said, I’ve got another three years. I said, this course will take you about another six weeks to finish.

[01:04:56] Greg: Just finish the course and if you don’t like it, come punch me in the face. I [01:05:00] dunno why, I dunno why I said that. I know you’re laughing. I was like, what did you say that for? But I just, anyway, so, but 

[01:05:07] Aaron: it was perfect. That sounds like something I would say 

[01:05:08] Greg: probably. It’s probably correct. Probably appropriate the correct tone level, right?

[01:05:12] Brad: Yep. 

[01:05:12] Greg: So he is like, he snatches the course away from me and he leaves, right? And I’m thinking, wow, I hope he stays 

[01:05:16] Brad: right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:05:17] Greg: So I go, so now that, so, but by that time I had prisons on a rotation. ’cause we had several that I, and I only had Fridays to do it, like mm-hmm. So I’d go on Fridays, ’cause there’s the time I’m trying to make my life work.

[01:05:28] Greg: Well, I was making my life work. And um, so I go back to the prison and I walk into the, into the section where we’d meet and there’s iz running around collecting lessons. Uh, and this guy was built like Arnold Schwarzenegger. 

[01:05:42] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:05:42] Greg: Christian who wore a Muslim skull cap. Oh. Like, totally like being all things to everybody, I suppose, right?

[01:05:49] Greg: Yeah, 

[01:05:49] Brad: yeah, yeah. 

[01:05:51] Greg: And he’s running around collecting lessons and he’s smiling me and he comes to me and he says, yeah, Greg, those are the lessons. We’re ready. And I’m like, and I was like, ah, he’s jerking. He’s, he’s jerking my tail. [01:06:00] I’m like, okay. Then he carries on and he says, then he originally, he goes, Hey Greg.

[01:06:03] Greg: Um, I moved, I moved outta my own cell into, into a cell with 20 other guys. And I was like, tell me. He says, yeah, I had my own cell at preferential cell, but I decided to move into another cell. So I’ve done that. And I’m like, why? I said, what do you mean why? I said, why’d you do that? He said, Greg, everybody in this prison needs to do the criminal program.

[01:06:24] Greg: And I was like, 

[01:06:25] Brad: yes. You’re like not getting punched 

[01:06:28] Greg: in the face. Yes. And, and he, this guy, his story. Right. So he, ’cause then he went around and got, he got hundreds of guys on course. 

[01:06:37] Brad: Wow. Wow. 

[01:06:38] Greg: And not through force, just like, if they knew him by reputation, they’d be like, oh, he has, he has iz. But he’d be like, Hey, you should do this course and just walk away and give them a card.

[01:06:47] Greg: Walk away, give him a card, walk away and guys would sign up, you know? And um, so he finishes. 

[01:06:54] Brad: He started using his power for good. 

[01:06:55] Greg: Yeah. That’s, that’s the, that’s the most, the, the [01:07:00] most regular thing that occurred in just about every prison where there was a shot caller. 

[01:07:03] Brad: No way. 

[01:07:04] Greg: Yes. Who did the program? Who then just was like, and was now the good guy.

[01:07:10] Brad: Wow. 

[01:07:10] Greg: Unbelievable. I’m gonna tell you a story when, just now. Right. But I, so Iz, um, comes to me one day and he’s like, he’s like, Hey Greg, I’ve got something to say. I’m like, what? He says, I’m married with three kids. I was like, what? I had no idea that a guy like that could have, could be married with three kids.

[01:07:28] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:07:28] Greg: And I’m like, okay, alright. I took a bit, it was really beyond my reality. I was like, there’s no way this guy has a woman and has three kids and they’re out, you know? And he is like, and I’m like, yeah. And he says, I want to get back in touch with him. I’m like, that’s good. 

[01:07:42] Brad: Wow. 

[01:07:42] Greg: Oh my God, that’s good. I know.

[01:07:45] Greg: So he says, so I’ve written a letter to my wife, you know? Yeah. I said, gimme the letter. I wanted to, I wanted, like, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Before. 

[01:07:52] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:52] Greg: Let me see the letter. Yeah. So he shows me the letter and I’m like, you not, you’re not. I, I grab it. I’m like, you’re not sending this to her. 

[01:07:58] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:58] Greg: And he’s like, what do you mean?

[01:07:59] Greg: I want to tell [01:08:00] her how much I love her and I miss her, and I’m never gonna do this again. And I’m like, I said, stop. How many times have you promised her that? 

[01:08:07] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:08:09] Greg: He says, what do you mean? I said, how many times have you promised to her that you’re gonna change? And then she believed you and you and she and you didn’t.

[01:08:16] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:08:16] Greg: And you broke her heart. 

[01:08:17] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:08:18] Greg: And he’s like, yeah, you’re right. And almost. And so I said, okay. I said, but what do I do? ’cause I want to, I said, okay, you gonna do good roads, good weather. You’re gonna write, you’re gonna write a letter, and it’s gonna be like four lines. I was thinking about you and the kids gonna let you know I’m doing fine.

[01:08:33] Greg: I hope you’re doing good. You know, much love or many, you know, love you lot or don’t even say love. Mm-hmm. Just, you know, iy. Mm-hmm. He’s like, no. I’m like, do it. 

[01:08:41] Brad: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:08:42] Greg: You trust me. Do it. So he does it. 

[01:08:45] Aaron: And by the way guys, just to comment, guys, you’re listening. That is a technology that’s contained in, in the book called Problems of Work.

[01:08:51] Greg: Yes. 

[01:08:52] Aaron: Okay. By Allan Hubbard. And that’s in a chapter called Affinity Reality Communication. That is this the way to get back in touch with somebody? Yep. That is covered in that [01:09:00] book. So grab that book right now, and that is where you’ll get this information. That’s why he knows how to do this, because he is Scientologist.

[01:09:06] Aaron: Okay. Contain. Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:07] Greg: So, so he, he writes, it doesn’t get an answer for like three weeks. He is mad at me. I’m like, send another letter. He’s like, no. I’m like, send, and he, and I said, just add a little bit more data. 

[01:09:16] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:09:17] Greg: And he does. That gets an answer. Thank you very much. The kids are fine. Whatever. He’s like, now what do I do?

[01:09:24] Greg: Said, write some more. Just write some more. You’ve gotta, she, you’ve gotta earn her trust. 

[01:09:29] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:09:29] Greg: She’s, she’s gotta see who you are. And he’s like, yeah, you’re right. So he’s like, okay. So he writes, so eventually the, the communication’s going after six months, the communication’s going back and forth. Then they’ll never get the One day he comes to me’s shaking like he’s shaking.

[01:09:44] Greg: I’m like, what’s up? He. My wife’s coming to see me tomorrow, and I’m like, so why are you nervous? He’s like, oh man. I’m just so nervous because, and I was like, Hey, who are you? 

[01:09:53] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:53] Greg: Who are you? Are you the guy she, are you the guy that’s always let her down or are you the, are you Isaiah as we know you today?

[01:09:59] Greg: Yeah. And [01:10:00] he just snapped. He was like, you’re right. I’m me. I’m not the guy that I was before. 

[01:10:05] Aaron: Wow. 

[01:10:05] Greg: So, so cool story, such cool story. She comes, she visits, she’s like, what the heck? She did not recognize him almost. She was like, holy cow, whatever my husband is, you know, my man is cool. And they started building their relationship back.

[01:10:18] Greg: Eventually the kids even started to come visit. Wow. Then, so he was Christian. Right? So her church organized him a job by the, before he came outta prison. Wow. So before he comes outta prison, he is already got a job. Right. He comes outta prison. Calls me, right? Mm-hmm. Now I’m already back in the, I’m already working in the US by the time he gets outta prison, but he, he, he got hold of me, I dunno if on email, right?

[01:10:41] Greg: And he’s like, I’m outta prison. I’ve got this job as a truck driver. I want to, he goes on national TV by himself on South African national TV and speaks about criminal. And he says, Hey, did you see the episode? I’m like, what episode? What do you mean? Yeah. And just promoting criminal, like crazy. [01:11:00] Right? Then started his own trucking company, just wow.

[01:11:03] Greg: See, like, look at those stories. Just incredible. You know? And he, he spotted, he met guys that he was in prison with that didn’t do the criminal program. 

[01:11:12] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:11:13] Greg: He bumped into them in a shopping center, and he was like, whoa, so cool to see you guys. Almost like a college reunion, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. These guys.

[01:11:20] Greg: And these guys were, and he is, and they’re like, he’s like, what are you guys doing? And they’re like, we’re robbing banks. And he is like, ah, you’re joking. He is like, no. They took him outside, popped the hood, popped the trunk. They were guns in the trunk. And they were, and he, he freaked out. 

[01:11:34] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:11:34] Greg: He called me crying on the phone.

[01:11:36] Greg: No kidding. Like, Greg can’t believe it. And he is like, but Greg, I really, this is what I realized these guys did not, when I asked him to do the criminal program, they did not do the criminal program. 

[01:11:46] Brad: Wow. 

[01:11:47] Greg: He says that’s the difference. That’s the difference. And he, like he said, I’m so shocked. That’s why he was crying.

[01:11:53] Greg: He’s so angry that he never got these guys probably taking a loss himself, that he never got them to do it. But he said that’s the [01:12:00] difference between the guys that do the program and the guys who don’t. And there I was like, there’s just so much evidence. But you know, like it’s. You know, sometimes you just, anyway, it’s just, it’s so interesting that you have those things happen, you know?

[01:12:13] Greg: Yeah. And again, another like leader of leaders. Yeah. Just went the wrong way. Okay, cool. So get him back. 

[01:12:18] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:12:18] Greg: We can get him back. 

[01:12:20] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:12:20] Greg: We can get, we can get these guys back on track. Yeah. And they, they love you, like Isaiah and we will always be mates. Yeah. Always, always, always be mates. And there are other guys, there are other guys that are just like, I don’t know, this is one prison in, in, in, um, it’s very near the, the advanced org in K Army in South Africa.

[01:12:40] Greg: Mm-hmm. Right. Almost right. Actually right next door. LH actually went to that prison in the sixties when he visited. Oh wow. Yeah. It’s called Leo Cop, which mean Dutch, the Dutch word for Lion’s Head. Right. And there’s four prisons there. And the maximum prison was Notorious. Notorious, one of the worst, maximum prisons in the country.

[01:12:58] Greg: So we get the criminal [01:13:00] program started in there. So I’d go there like on a rotation, you know, and I meet this one guy, young white guy, young. Info murder. Mm-hmm. Just like, and you know, and he was a top, he was in the top. He was, he was in the top 12 students in the country at, before he went into prison.

[01:13:16] Aaron: Wow. 

[01:13:16] Greg: Right. Yeah. And his info murder. And he had been in Johannesburg Prison then, you know, he’d been bounced around because he kept on challenging the, the authorities on this sucks, hiss, no workable programs. This sucks. And they, so they kept on trying to move him around ’cause they didn’t like the fact.

[01:13:31] Greg: So I bump into him at, at, at corp and I, he, he becomes my student. 

[01:13:36] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:13:36] Greg: So I, I start getting him through the course. Right. And he is this guy talk about a student, right? 

[01:13:42] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:13:42] Greg: One question is like, you’ll, you ask him a simple question, he gives you like almost a page for an answer. Mm-hmm. And know and, but Cool.

[01:13:50] Greg: Yeah. And he was studying his political science degree. Very, very, the, the political parties. Some of the political parties would come to visit him to ask for like, what should we do? Strategy. 

[01:13:59] Brad: Wow. 

[01:13:59] Greg: [01:14:00] Yeah. This guy is sharp as Isaac. Right. And, um. So we start getting through the course. So he’s, and I’m like, wow, great lesson.

[01:14:09] Greg: Great lesson, great lesson. But I don’t see any change. 

[01:14:12] Brad: Oh, 

[01:14:12] Greg: I go visit, I’m like, still scraggly hair, still rough. Still not, wouldn’t look me in the eyes. 

[01:14:17] Brad: Mm. 

[01:14:17] Greg: It’d be like, it’d be like this something, something still there. Something’s still there. 

[01:14:21] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:14:22] Greg: Right. So I’m like, okay. So I’m like, okay, this is a bit unfortunate, but he is a good student, so keep him going.

[01:14:27] Greg: Get to the virtues, right? So the virtues with criminal, we make them take one virtue, like honesty, practice it the whole day in the prison, write up what you did, submit it. Mm-hmm. The next day, take love, practice it the whole day in the prison, whatever those virtues are, right? Mm-hmm. Practice it the whole day.

[01:14:43] Greg: Tell us what you did. Write it up and then you get graded, right? 

[01:14:46] Brad: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:46] Greg: So, so he gets onto the virtues and um, he does all these virtues, right? And he does this virtue for honesty. And it’s like, well, today I practice honesty. So I was sitting with, sitting against the fence and Joe came [01:15:00] up to me and asked me for five bucks to buy, to buy weed.

[01:15:04] Greg: So, because Joe was honest, I gave him the five bucks. 

[01:15:07] Aaron: Oh, 

[01:15:08] Greg: exactly. So I’m like, what are you doing? So, flunk him, flunk, flunk, flunk, send back the lessons. Mm-hmm. I go back to the prison and I hand them to him. I’m like, dude, you gotta redo this. You’re not. And oh, we were having a graduation in two weeks time.

[01:15:23] Greg: Mm-hmm. And he wanted to graduate, right? Mm-hmm. Because he was like, I’m the brightest guy in the prison. 

[01:15:27] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:27] Greg: I’m the smartest guy here. Nobody’s smarter than me. Yep. So I’m, you know, 

[01:15:31] Brad: always gets the A uhhuh. 

[01:15:33] Greg: Always. 

[01:15:34] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:15:34] Greg: No application. So I’m, like I said, since when is smoking marijuana? Since when is illegal in prison?

[01:15:42] Greg: And you’ve gotta be honest, not Joe, go and do this again. He’s like, he was mad at me. Like, I was like, you’re not, I’m not, I’m not graduating unless you get this right. And I, and he said, oh, I’m not gonna do the course. I said, don’t do the course, you don’t graduate. End of story. And he was like, oh, no. So he, he, you know, ’cause I said, you’re [01:16:00] not degrading this program’s name or Arun ha habit’s name by your behavior.

[01:16:04] Greg: Mm-hmm. Wow. So he is like, wait, wait, wait. I’m like, fine. So he, so he takes the lesson about two weeks later, I get this, what in the mail. Right. All these great, all these virtues. Right. And I started reading them.

[01:16:23] Greg: It’s so, it’s, it’s so wild. It, it’s, it’s so long ago, but not mm-hmm.

[01:16:34] Greg: Ah, so, so we get to the, the virtue, honest, um, forgiveness. 

[01:16:39] Aaron: Mm. 

[01:16:40] Greg: Right. And I’m reading this thing on forgiveness, right? And he says, in the, it says in there, it says like, okay, so I was given up for adoption when I was a kid, right? And I never forgave my parents for doing that, right? And I’ve been trying to prove them wrong all my life and trying to prove them wrong.

[01:16:55] Greg: So today I’m gonna practice forgiveness, so I’m gonna forgive them. But how do you [01:17:00] forgive them from a maximum prison? Right?

[01:17:06] Greg: So wild. Yeah. So incredible, right? Yeah. Just man is so basically so good. 

[01:17:11] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:17:11] Greg: So he, um, so he finds out, now this is in a Maxim prison. He finds out where they are using the phone book, finds out where they are, calls them. Now this is his birth parents, right? Not the parents. That this is the, the parents that gave him up for adoption.

[01:17:30] Greg: Tells them about himself, tells him where he is, forgives them. They’re crying on the phone. He’s crying on the phone. And um, he says, and then he says, you know, and he is right. And I’m reading this and I’m like, wow. You know? And my wife’s like, what is going on? I’m like, look at this. You know? So, so, um, so I read and he says, you know, so I put the phone down.

[01:17:56] Greg: I put the phone down, read the cyber relief, [01:18:00] went to the shower, cried in the shower for like, for like an hour. Just cried and cried and cried in the shower. Walked out the shower, put on my clothes, walked into the education department and just started working. Just started working, helping other guys.

[01:18:13] Greg: Mm-hmm. Just working, helping each guy with the course. ’cause I was the guy that was, I knew how to, I understood English, so he just started helping students, right? So I’m reading this and I’m like, holy moly, this is amazing. Right? So I read everyone, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass. I’m, so, I’m super excited.

[01:18:30] Greg: So I, Friday I go to the prison and I’m walking and I’m looking for him, right? And I walk and I look and I see him there and I’m like, what the haircut? Shaved looking at me. And I’m like, he’s like, I passed, right? I’m like,

[01:18:53] Greg: right. And I’m like, yeah, your mother, you passed. Like we just hugged each other. But it was, it’s like that kind of [01:19:00] guy. That guy must have gotten thousands of guys onto criminal. Wow. Because, ’cause from his behavior, he went from maximum prison, then he got sent to Medium. He calls me from the medium prison, Hey, they don’t have criminal on you.

[01:19:11] Greg: Come. I go there, he gets the guy sign up. Stop. Oh 

[01:19:14] Brad: my gosh. 

[01:19:15] Greg: Gets then sent to an even less secure prison. Calls me the same thing. Come then this was, this happened like, so this now four years later, right? Think this is like four years later. He gets called into the, into the warden’s office, you know, and now this is a guy who’s in prison for murder.

[01:19:34] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:19:34] Greg: Sentenced 30 years plus. Okay. So he gets called into the, into the, into the warden and the warden’s like, you know, Phoenix, you, you know, we consider, you know, we’re considering, you know, your release and stuff like that. And he is like, I dunno what you’re talking about. You know, because I’m not released for a long time.

[01:19:49] Greg: And, um, and he is like, yo, because of your good behavior, you know, we are gonna consider your release. And he is like thinking, okay, that’s gonna probably take a few years, blah, blah, blah. And he says, yo, we’re gonna let you go next week. [01:20:00] And he freaks out ’cause he is like, wait, I’m not ready, I’m not ready to leave.

[01:20:05] Greg: I dunno. Like I don’t have if things in place at home. But they’d already called his, the, the, his, his, um, guardian and told them. 

[01:20:12] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:20:12] Greg: Right. So, so he, so within a week they released him. 

[01:20:17] Aaron: How old is this guy? 

[01:20:18] Greg: Uh, 

[01:20:18] Aaron: or that time? 

[01:20:19] Greg: Phoenix Must have been 25 then easily. ’cause I think he was 19 when he went into prison.

[01:20:25] Brad: Basically Got his life back. 

[01:20:26] Greg: Yeah. So, so check this out. If one of the first things he does is he calls the church. 

[01:20:33] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:20:34] Greg: Because he loved LRH. 

[01:20:36] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:20:36] Greg: He’s like, when he was at, when he was in the prison, he was like, use this l Ron Hubbard. 

[01:20:40] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:20:41] Greg: I was like, okay, do, are you interested? He’s like, yeah. So I brought him in a Ron Mag said This is, read some of this stuff.

[01:20:45] Greg: He’s like, oh, just pretty interesting. I’m like, yeah. And he just, he just became like, he just wanted to know more and more and more about LRH and he was like, okay, I like what this man says. I’m gonna follow what this man says I’m gonna, you know, he was [01:21:00] like, I’m gonna inspect it. I said, good. Inspect the data for yourself.

[01:21:02] Greg: Yeah. But you know, 

[01:21:04] Brad: that’s exactly what fricking Ron would want it. 

[01:21:06] Greg: Yeah, exactly. Right. I love that. And if you look at, so when that guy did his li you know, if you, the liability formula, right? Yeah. Like conditions, right? So if you look at his step two and step three, you know, decide who your friends are, then deliver an effective blow, then make up the damage.

[01:21:25] Greg: Mm-hmm. Deliver an effective blow. Yeah. Getting guys onto the criminal program, thousands. Like, and then helping, getting them on. Helping them through course. So you just look at like, he’s like, he’s no longer in lowers. 

[01:21:37] Brad: Mm-hmm. That’s right. 

[01:21:38] Greg: No longer in lowers. 

[01:21:39] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:21:40] Greg: Just incredible and, and interest. And then, you know what happened?

[01:21:42] Brad: The prison system recognized that. 

[01:21:44] Greg: Yeah. Well, they, like, you can 

[01:21:45] Brad: just, 

[01:21:46] Greg: it was so good that they recognized his behavior. Like he, like, they were like, Felix, you are helping these men change. 

[01:21:52] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:53] Greg: They are, you know, that’s what the, that was the cool thing about them recognizing that him as a criminal graduate did that.

[01:21:58] Greg: And then here’s the kicker. [01:22:00] He never committed the crime. 

[01:22:03] Aaron: What? 

[01:22:05] Greg: He took the full.

[01:22:10] Greg: I know. I was like, dude. He’s like, I know, but he had done the Wow. The apps. But he, but we’ve got the ups and downs course, right? 

[01:22:18] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:22:18] Greg: Where they spot the antisocial and the social 

[01:22:21] Brad: holy crap. 

[01:22:23] Greg: And I was, and because I, and I’d met. I was like, I don’t like this guy. He’s always, the more he tried to get this phoenix outta prison, the more they just kept on wanting to add him away.

[01:22:33] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:22:34] Greg: And I was like, Hmm. And took it. He took, he took the fall for that guy. 

[01:22:39] Brad: Wow. 

[01:22:40] Greg: I was like, man. Anyway, like those are those stories. 

[01:22:43] Brad: Wow. 

[01:22:44] Greg: These are these stories that, that, that are legendary and he’s living his life doing his thing. 

[01:22:51] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:22:51] Greg: Hap like productive, contributing member of society. 

[01:22:55] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:22:55] Greg: You know, just, it’s just, it’s like stories like that.

[01:22:59] Greg: Then you, you know, you come [01:23:00] to the US and you have the same stories. Yeah. Same guys. Just like incredible. Just when they get the truth, they’re like, they can’t unknow the truth. 

[01:23:09] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:23:09] Greg: It’s interesting. That’s right. The guy reads the way it happens and he can’t go. No. That’s not what occurred. 

[01:23:13] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:23:14] Greg: Like, I’ll give you an example.

[01:23:15] Greg: So we ran into a situation in California, um, quite a while ago. I’m gonna be, I suppose I’ve gotta watch what I say. It’s fine. 

[01:23:27] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:23:27] Greg: So, but there were individuals in a union 

[01:23:30] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:23:31] Greg: That were, were spreading false information about us. Yeah, 

[01:23:35] Brad: yeah. 

[01:23:36] Greg: Right. So anyway, so we do, we we pull the string, pull the string, find out.

[01:23:39] Greg: So I go and have a meeting with the head guy. 

[01:23:42] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:23:42] Greg: Okay. Guy. I’m like, if you’ve met, um, if you’ve met a person that fits like an antisocial 

[01:23:49] Brad: Yeah, 

[01:23:49] Greg: that guy looked like that. 

[01:23:51] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:23:51] Greg: I was like, whoa. Okay. Okay. So, but I’m just like standard, standard procedure. 

[01:23:56] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:23:57] Greg: Give everybody a copy of the way of happiness.

[01:23:58] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:23:59] Greg: Show them the [01:24:00] criminal results. Let them watch and then let them read. Like give them the, give them the weight to happiness so they can get Al Ron ha directly. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like not from me. Right? Mm-hmm. So this guy sitting there, wha wha at me. Yeah. You guys are this and you guys are that. I’m like, yeah, okay.

[01:24:14] Greg: Whatever. 

[01:24:14] Brad: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:15] Greg: Yeah. He starts reading the book, but he pops his head out of the comac, so me and his executives are talking. And I had another, in another person there, another, another person with me from Able International with me in the meeting. And the two of us are talking and this, and he pops his head out of the, out of the meeting?

[01:24:33] Greg: Yeah. And, and looking at the book and puts it down, pops back in, picks up the book again now for like five minutes. Starts reading through, right? Mm-hmm. Puts the book down and just blurts out, I need help with my son. 

[01:24:50] Brad: Wow. 

[01:24:50] Greg: And I’m like, what do you mean? Do you have to go fetch him from school? Or he’s like, no, I need help with my son.

[01:24:55] Greg: I’m like, I don’t know. What did you, did he fall at school? Did he? I was like, no, [01:25:00] no. My son’s 15 years old, stealing cars, smoking weed. He’s gonna go to prison. And I know how they treat me and he starts giving off their, all their indiscretions. 

[01:25:09] Brad: Wow. 

[01:25:11] Greg: And he’s and his execs yell at him to shut the F up. 

[01:25:15] Brad: Yeah.

[01:25:16] Greg: And I’m just like. Thanks. Thank you. Like for a guy like that to see, because you can’t unknow the truth. That’s right. Like man is basically good. 

[01:25:27] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:25:27] Greg: He’s basically good. And, and you, we just gotta keep pushing, promoting that message, you know? 

[01:25:31] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:25:32] Greg: And just keep, um, finding that and looking for that and, and, and get this, get the way to happiness out by the hundreds of millions.

[01:25:42] Brad: Yes. Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:43] Greg: Because it’s such, it is, it is such an incredible work mm-hmm. That helps people on the, on the, on the most, most gentle gradient. 

[01:25:55] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:25:56] Greg: On finding themself, again, finding their love for themself, [01:26:00] finding their decency, you know, and it’s just, it’s, you can, I cannot say, and I never will have enough to say about the actual products and the results and the, the content of that book, how much it means for.

[01:26:16] Greg: The average person for the successful person, for the person down in the dumps, for guys in prison, wherever they are. That book can help you pull out of whatever 

[01:26:26] Brad: that’s 

[01:26:26] Greg: right. Muck you in. That’s right. And so that you can actually, and 

[01:26:29] Brad: everybody’s, everybody’s got some muck going on that they can pull out of everybody.

[01:26:33] Greg: There’s no one person 

[01:26:34] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:26:35] Greg: On this planet of 8 billion people that does not have something that they can’t improve, you know, or work with, you know, except me. I’m kidding. No, no. Definitely not me. But, but you know, it’s, so, it’s, um, yeah, the, this, I I’ve, I’ve been blessed, I suppose you could use that word to, to be able to use, um.

[01:26:57] Greg: And, and work with Mr. Hubbard’s technology. Know to just [01:27:00] be, and, and, and also like a bit proud of myself that I have the fortitude to go, okay, good. I’ve gotta do what it says here. I can’t be like, well, I think it means this, so I’m gonna do that. 

[01:27:08] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:27:09] Greg: You just gotta do what it says. Like, you know, like when we, like, you know, from my first day of yelling at the guy, like, why the FI was like, I don’t think he would do it this way.

[01:27:15] Greg: So let, let me figure out, and at 

[01:27:19] Brad: least you did it. 

[01:27:20] Greg: It’s true. But then figuring survey, 

[01:27:22] Aaron: asking 

[01:27:22] Greg: them what do they want? Survey te what do they want once you didn’t Yes. 

[01:27:25] Aaron: Do, do nothing. 

[01:27:27] Greg: Do nothing. Yes. Yeah. You know, you know what’s an interesting thing as well with that survey, what was, what I was also also did was I, I, you know, they date him about when you’re two years old, you, you have, you know what your purpose is.

[01:27:38] Brad: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:27:39] Greg: You know, there’s a, I think it’s in Dianetics, there’s like a being nose when he is like two years old. He’s like, I know what I’m gonna do. And I’d ask the guy, I asked them, Hey, so when you were a kid, what, what was the goal? What was the dream that you wanted, that you had, that you wanted to be?

[01:27:51] Greg: Oh man. They’d be like, what do you mean? I’m like, no, you know, this, this dream that you’ve had, that you’ve always wanted to, you wanted to be a blah, or you wanted to marry [01:28:00] this girl, you wanted to live there, or you wanted like, what was that? And I have them look. 

[01:28:04] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:28:04] Greg: And then don’t I do not let go. The guy go, 

[01:28:08] Brad: yeah, 

[01:28:08] Greg: I want an answer.

[01:28:09] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:28:10] Greg: And you see the guy go, oh. And some of them are like, I wanted to be a policeman. I’m like, okay. 

[01:28:15] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:28:16] Greg: So what? Yeah. Like, and they forget there was one guy Yeah. In Florida and a young guy, youngish guy, but obviously, you know, not, not, not a spring chicken anymore. And, and he wouldn’t, he was like, ah, I can’t tell you, man.

[01:28:27] Greg: I’m like, so I was just like, oh, 

[01:28:28] Brad: he wouldn’t tell 

[01:28:28] Greg: you. He’s like, I can’t say man. Oh, just, I’m like, tell me. And I just, I just even stood, I just like, I just got down to, he was in the chair. I got down to his level. I said, just tell me, man. 

[01:28:37] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:28:38] Greg: And, and everybody in the room was waiting. 

[01:28:40] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:28:40] Greg: He’s like, oh man, I wanted to be a quarterback.

[01:28:43] Greg: I just wanted to be a quarterback. I wanna be the best quarterback. And I was like, okay, cool. So can you coach? 

[01:28:48] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:28:48] Greg: Could you be a coach? And he was like. I never thought of that. Yes, I could coach. I was like, cool, go do that. 

[01:28:55] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:28:56] Greg: Go make quarterbacks. Yeah. You know, it says, says you can just help the guy.

[01:28:59] Brad: [01:29:00] Mm-hmm. 

[01:29:00] Greg: You can just help the guy find, you know, that, that spark that’s in everybody. 

[01:29:05] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:29:05] Greg: You know, it doesn’t matter where the guy’s at. Doesn’t matter. 

[01:29:08] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:29:08] Greg: You know, 

[01:29:09] Brad: so beautiful. Brilliant. 

[01:29:10] Greg: It is. 

[01:29:11] Brad: Wow. 

[01:29:11] Greg: It is. 

[01:29:12] Brad: Okay, so we, we, we have a question. Okay. Ask some question. 

[01:29:15] Greg: Okay. 

[01:29:15] Brad: So question, a question that 

[01:29:16] Greg: hope have answers?

[01:29:17] Brad: Yeah, yeah. No, you will for sure. Okay. Guarantee you’ll have an answer to this question. 

[01:29:20] Greg: Okay. 

[01:29:20] Brad: Uh, we ask, we ask this to every guest. It’s kind of like you, you know, so in your own words, what is Scientology? 

[01:29:27] Greg: Scientology is an applied philosophy that when applied works every time and it is the right total freedom for everybody.

[01:29:37] Greg: Like every person in this universe. I know we, we think about this planet, 8 billion people, so every person. Once total freedom. It’s interesting, like mm-hmm. They, every person, no matter where they are, they want total freedom. Like, that’s, that’s the, that’s the thing that everybody wants. However they’re trying to get there, they’re trying to do that.

[01:29:58] Greg: So for me, that is [01:30:00] Scientology. 

[01:30:00] Brad: Wow. 

[01:30:01] Aaron: Brilliant. Yeah. Beautiful. And then, uh, I wish we had more time. I’d love to be here, hear all the stories. I know. And then we need to do a follow up. We’re gonna need to do a follow up. Okay. 

[01:30:08] Brad: Yeah. However, I will say this is probably the, you know, like, just in terms of perception of time, it’s, it’s different.

[01:30:14] Brad: Some, something seem longer, something seem shorter. I was just like looking at the clock for a second and I was like, I know 

[01:30:19] Aaron: how that 

[01:30:21] Brad: this long. Yeah. You are a magnificent storyteller. 

[01:30:24] Greg: Yeah. Oh, thank you. 

[01:30:25] Brad: Oh my gosh. 

[01:30:25] Greg: Thank you. 

[01:30:26] Aaron: So, um, if someone’s watching this right, and they go like, dude, like Scientology has a bunch of courses online for free.

[01:30:34] Aaron: All the entire volunteer minister’s handbook is online, right? 

[01:30:36] Greg: Mm-hmm. Yes. And the way to happiness. 

[01:30:37] Aaron: And the way to happiness, yeah. Oh, good. So out of all the courses online. What should someone do right now? What is your favorite, most recommended course for someone to do right now at this second? 

[01:30:47] Greg: The, the way to Happiness.

[01:30:48] Greg: Yeah. The way to Happiness online, because it starts, it just gives you the great, like, it gives you what you could recognize in yourself. 

[01:30:55] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:30:55] Greg: You start recognizing the decency in yourself. Right. And then I would go to the volunteer [01:31:00] ministers.org and do every one of those courses. Mm-hmm. Those courses are invaluable.

[01:31:04] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:31:04] Greg: Like if you look at, in South Africa, it’s like, it’s created a firestorm. We have over 43,000 fully trained volunteer ministers that have done those online courses, and it’s changing the country. I was there two weeks ago. Right. For an unfortunate situation, but I was there two weeks ago, and you just see it there.

[01:31:22] Greg: The amount of change that these four and, and these 43,000 are teachers, doctors, nurses, government leaders, uh, men in the street. Mm-hmm. And these people are so happy that they have solutions. Mm-hmm. The, these ministers, these pastors. Have so are so happy that they can give their their congregation tools for life.

[01:31:44] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:31:44] Greg: Like, they were like, oh, thank you. I’ll run hub for these tools. ’cause it was interesting, they would give stories of like, I’m losing parishioners. 

[01:31:50] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:31:51] Greg: I’m losing parishioners, I’m losing parishioners. How do I keep my parishioners? ’cause they, they’re struggling and they won. They won’t go out to help them.

[01:31:57] Greg: And so, and you know, and like they have faith, [01:32:00] but they, they can’t, they don’t want to come back. And it’s just like, yes, these tools for life. And they, but the cool thing was is this, these pastors recognize it themself that these were tools for life mm-hmm. That they could give Yeah. To their parishioners.

[01:32:11] Greg: And they’re now, their congregations, their churches are packed. 

[01:32:14] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:32:14] Greg: It’s like the one thing I found with the criminal program. Every prison we went into after about six months, the education forces, 

[01:32:22] Brad: I’m so sorry. I wanna interrupt and point something out on something you just said. You said that Scientology, like these people getting trained as Scientology volunteer ministers Yes.

[01:32:30] Brad: Help them pack their own churches. Churches, yeah. They’re not Scientology churches. No. 

[01:32:34] Greg: They’re 

[01:32:34] Brad: Christian churches. These are Christian churches. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But we s this is just such an important point, is that we as Scientologists, we, I can speak for myself personally and probably for, for every Scientologist I’ve ever read, we want churches packed 

[01:32:45] Greg: Yes.

[01:32:46] Brad: Of every denomination, every 

[01:32:47] Greg: religion. Yes. 

[01:32:48] Brad: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. 

[01:32:49] Greg: You know, you, it’s just 

[01:32:50] Brad: such 

[01:32:50] Greg: an important, religion is so important for man, so important and I, I respect the religious beliefs of ev every person, they have the right to believe and have a faith. [01:33:00] And I, I will support that with my, with every inch of my being.

[01:33:03] Brad: Yeah, 

[01:33:04] Greg: absolutely. 

[01:33:04] Brad: And, and these are tools that help a Christian to be a better Christian. 

[01:33:08] Greg: Yeah. And be, yeah, be a better Christian, be a better individual, be a better husband, a better mom, a better, a better kid, a better, you know, a brighter student. 

[01:33:16] Brad: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:33:16] Greg: Yeah. A more ethical mayor, uh, a more, uh, productive manager.

[01:33:21] Greg: More a more wealthier boss, you know? Yeah. That can help his staff. It’s like, it’s, it’s, and I saying the thing about the criminal program was every prison that we went to, the offspring, like the, the, the, the, the, the Christian services got bigger. 

[01:33:36] Brad: Mm. 

[01:33:37] Greg: They came and told me that the Christian groups came and asked me if they can come to our graduations and if they can do joint graduations with us.

[01:33:44] Greg: And I was like, why? I said, my, my, my class is full of your graduates. I’m like, beautiful that the art classes, the college classes. All started just blossoming. ’cause the guys are like, well, I’m just not gonna line my cell anymore. I’m gonna go make something outta my life. And [01:34:00] they start doing that. Right.

[01:34:01] Greg: Wow. The one prison, oh, I gotta tell you this guys, before we go right, this, this, this, this, I was telling you about this prison called Corp, where Phoenix was. Right. And um, that prison, I didn’t know when we started, they had 1087 gang fights a year. 

[01:34:18] Brad: 1087. 

[01:34:20] Greg: 87. One. That’s, that’s the statistic I would given 

[01:34:23] Brad: that’s six a day, 

[01:34:24] Greg: seven days a week.

[01:34:25] Greg: That’s crazy. Three to four a day. A day. That’s gang fights. That’s right. Four gangs trying to dominate the prison and Yeah. And three times a day there’s just chaos, just stabbing, kicking, punching. Mm-hmm. And then, then the guard separate them, then two hours later, then three to four times a day, seven days a week.

[01:34:42] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:34:44] Greg: I didn’t know this. 

[01:34:45] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:34:46] Greg: So two years late. So I’ve been, been going there for two years. I’m walking in with the head of internal security. He’s like a little bit of a gnarly guy. And he is like, oh, we had two fights this year. I’m like, okay, how many did you have last year? He says, 1,087. [01:35:00] 

[01:35:00] Brad: Like, what?

[01:35:01] Greg: What? And so I, and so I said to him, so what did you do? Did you, did you chain the guys to the beds? Did you hold guns to their head? Like, did you not, did you make them eat separate times? What did you, how did you do that? ’cause no prison in the country is doing that. How did you do that? And he is, and he pokes me in the chest.

[01:35:16] Greg: He’s like, and he, I’ll never forget, he like hits me in the chest. He’s like, it’s your like almost mad at me, like, it’s your program. And I was like, bullshit. 

[01:35:23] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:35:24] Greg: And I immediately, he’s like, bullshit man. He’s like, and he’s like, doesn’t, he’s like, what is wrong with this guy? I’m like, bullshit. I said, you know that that’s not true.

[01:35:31] Greg: You know? And you know, he tells, I said, why do you say that? He said, um, ’cause the guys that were in gangs stop com commit, stop carrying out the gang orders. And I said, I told him, I said, you’re lying. ’cause you know if you’re a gang member, if you get given an order, you have to take that order and deliver it, otherwise you jumped.

[01:35:46] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:35:47] Greg: Right. And he said, okay, well the gang leaders that are on your program stop the fights. And I was like, what? There are gang leaders on my program on, on criminal, on my program. He’s like, [01:36:00] yes. And he, and he’s mad and he walks away and I’m like, wait. And he is like, Hey, I’m done with you. So, so I run into the prison.

[01:36:07] Greg: I run in with, and I run to the section. Oh, and the guy in, I’m like, and I’m like, guys, hey, hey, hey, hey. So I forget the guy’s name. I said, Mr. Mrs told me this. Told, he said, said this to me. Then last year there was 1,087 fights. This year there were two. Is that true? They’re like, yeah. I was like, how did this happen?

[01:36:28] Greg: He’s like, what do you mean? We just stopped fighting? I’m like, yeah, you just, just stop fighting. You just stop fighting. So Jimmy, so two the So man, one guy, Jimmy, the coolest guy, I didn’t know he was a gang leader, stands up and he says like, yeah, I was one of the gang leaders. I’m like, what did he says? He said, Greg started doing the weight happiness course.

[01:36:47] Greg: Just started thinking like, what is my life? 

[01:36:49] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:36:49] Greg: I’ve gotta sleep with one eye open. 

[01:36:51] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:36:51] Greg: I’ve gotta have a guy protecting my bed at night and I’ve gotta keep an eye on that. He doesn’t try and do me in. So I’m like living this [01:37:00] life of, I mean, anxiousness all the time. And he has this way to happiness saying he’s, this is what I could live like and this is what I am and this is, and I see your criminal graduates.

[01:37:09] Greg: And they’re, they’ve stopped fighting. They like become good guys, you know? So I was just like, okay, I’m gonna figure out how we can stop the violence because I know my guys are gonna fight. So him and two, another gang leader and four other guys got together and they were like, they figured out, they were like, how do we do this?

[01:37:28] Greg: So every time there’s a fight, every time there’s a signal, it’s like double tap on the bars and everybody’s just like pumping, it’s like a signal or a whistle or something. 

[01:37:37] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:37:37] Greg: And they start fighting, right? So they said, okay, as soon as we have the signal. What are we gonna do? What the six of us will do?

[01:37:43] Greg: And two of us are gang leaders, so we’ll be, you know, hopefully they won’t, we’ll fall down arms and step back against the nearest wall of fence so that at least if you’re against the fence, you’re not gonna get hit from the back. 

[01:37:52] Brad: Yeah, 

[01:37:53] Greg: yeah, yeah. We’ll just do that and stand back against the wall. So I’m like, yeah.

[01:37:57] Greg: So he said, so we did that and that’s how we did it. And I was like, come [01:38:00] on. So I said, what happened the first time? He says, what do you mean? I said, what happened the first time you did this? 

[01:38:05] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:38:06] Greg: Did you get hit? He’s like, come on Greg. Of course we got hit. He said, tell me. So he says, yeah, the first time, stood there, stood back against the wall, got kicked, got punched, got smacked, got guys like fight back.

[01:38:16] Greg: He’s like, I’m not gonna fight you, brother. I’m not gonna fight you. And he said, we did that every time. And we just kept doing that every day. And it was painful. That was painful. But we just kept doing that. We just kept holding, you know, stepping back against door every day. And then more and more guys started doing that.

[01:38:31] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:38:32] Greg: And eventually the guy that really wanted to fight were like, well, we can’t beat the guy up because he’s not not even fighting. Right. And he said, and that’s how we did it. We just stopped the fighting. So I said to him, okay, but you, the first time when you got punched right? You did you fight back?

[01:38:47] Greg: He’s like, no. I was like, why didn’t you fight back? And he just looked at me. Right. He looked at me and said, Greg, if I fight back, I lose my self respect. 

[01:38:55] Brad: Wow. 

[01:38:58] Greg: I was like, oh [01:39:00] 

[01:39:00] Brad: yeah. 

[01:39:02] Greg: I was like, I was thinking I would’ve fought back. 

[01:39:04] Brad: I was thinking the same thing. I’m 

[01:39:05] Greg: like, but he was like, this guy got 

[01:39:07] Brad: more like 

[01:39:07] Greg: Yes.

[01:39:08] Brad: Eternal fortitude than I did. 

[01:39:10] Greg: Yes. If I fight back, I’ll lose my selfish. 

[01:39:12] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:39:14] Greg: Because it’s interesting. Don’t change because the person changes. 

[01:39:16] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:17] Greg: Stay who you are. And he just stayed who he was. 

[01:39:20] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:39:20] Greg: And that paid off. So. So now check this out. So normal fights in that prison, right? 

[01:39:25] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:39:25] Greg: The guards.

[01:39:26] Greg: Love criminal. 

[01:39:28] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:28] Greg: They don’t have to worry about being attacked. They don’t have to worry about their bad behavior. They used to have their, um, sory confinement and their sick bay full all the time. Sory confinement is where you get put for like Yeah. 30 days, you know, on by yourself. After two years empty, so nobody sold a chicken farmer for the last year.

[01:39:47] Greg: Nobody. The head, the warden’s like, I don’t know. When lost we put a guy down there. It’s so weird. Right. Those, here’s another cool thing. Those, those students, every year, another H’s birthday, send him a birthday gift [01:40:00] 

[01:40:00] Brad: stop. Wow. Wow. 

[01:40:04] Greg: It’s just, and it was a, it was a, it’s a maximum prison. 

[01:40:09] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:40:10] Greg: It’s a maximum prison, dude.

[01:40:12] Greg: Wow. I took, I’ll never forget, I took my brother to a graduation. He’s a beautiful guy. You know, Christian, very beautiful guy. And he was like, oh, let me see what you do. ’cause he’d heard I, yeah. You know, so I take him to the graduation at that prison, right? Yeah. And he walks into the, into the, into the, the quadrangle and, you know, into the yard.

[01:40:30] Greg: Now the, the officials would do anything for us. ’cause of the results we got, we had white linen tablecloths. 

[01:40:37] Brad: Wow. 

[01:40:38] Greg: I was like, where’d you get white linen? They’re like, even the guards like, don’t worry Greg, it’s scri on. We fix this. You know? So they had white linen tables, they had played with cookies. The Christian, every group that was there, like they came to watch.

[01:40:51] Greg: Right. So my brothers there and so, you know, we do the standard thing, you know, call up the guy’s name. Hey John, finish the weight happiness course. Come on up John. And [01:41:00] like a call, say we have a hundred graduates, they all come up, you know, get permission to do a photograph. Um, and then a couple guys would speak and this one guy read a poem and my brother just burst out crying.

[01:41:10] Greg: Wow. I’m looking at him and he is like, I’m not gonna cry. I’m not gonna cry. And I’m like, what is, he is like, he’s like, this is unbelievable. 

[01:41:20] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:41:21] Greg: This is unbelievable that this man who is supposed to be the scum of the earth, writes this beautiful poem Yeah. About his life and what he wants to do with it.

[01:41:29] Greg: And my brother was even like, this was years ago, my brother, like when I saw him, he was like, that just, I, that’s still one of the biggest miracles he’s ever seen. So it’s stuff like that that you don’t get to hear about in the news or mm-hmm. And maybe we don’t want it in the news. We just wanna keep delivering.

[01:41:45] Greg: Or we put it in the news. We just wanna I 

[01:41:47] Brad: in the damn news. 

[01:41:47] Greg: I know it, 

[01:41:49] Aaron: it’s on this, it’s on the show. It’s on the show. Show. Yeah. It’s on the show. Show. Okay. We are the news. Share it baby. Share it. 

[01:41:53] Greg: It’s just, it’s just like this, this is, this is, you know, my reality is this is mankind. 

[01:41:59] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:41:59] Greg: [01:42:00] Like, that’s the beauty of mankind that we can do that.

[01:42:02] Greg: I’ll never forget one more thing. I No, keep talking. Never. It’s all good. One more story. 

[01:42:07] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:42:08] Greg: But I, I was actually playing golf. At some break. This was in Arizona. Right. And I was guys I’d never met before. And they, so we tee off and the guy says, Hey, what do you do? So I running a criminal 

[01:42:20] Brad: and he’s the type of guy who jump in on a random foursome.

[01:42:22] Greg: Yeah, no, they, those days I was like, it was a week break. I was like, I’m gonna play golf. 

[01:42:25] Brad: Yeah, 

[01:42:26] Greg: yeah, yeah. You know, and um, so I joined this four ball and these guys like asked me what I do. So I told them, you know, and the one guy was like, what do you mean? I said, I, I, I work for a nonprofit that rehabilitates criminals.

[01:42:37] Greg: He’s like, you know what? I think that they should all, you know, they should all get executed and guard should make the decision. 

[01:42:44] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:42:45] Greg: And I was like, okay. But most of the guys don’t go to pri. There’s a lot of guys that don’t go to prison for murder and crimes like that. 

[01:42:53] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:42:53] Greg: And when, you know, so we handle them in prison.

[01:42:55] Greg: So when they come out and they move into your neighborhood, they don’t hassle you or your daughter or your [01:43:00] kids. 

[01:43:00] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:43:01] Greg: And he was like, excuse me. He was like, oh, I never thought of that. I’m so sorry. He’s like, I never thought of that. I was like, yeah. So he’s like, sorry, I didn’t mean to be, I was like, no worry.

[01:43:11] Greg: I’m Ty. I’m used to that response. ’cause people, ’cause people get mad at crime. 

[01:43:16] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:43:17] Greg: Rightly so. 

[01:43:17] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:43:18] Greg: Rightly so. There’s not like, oh yeah, he committed another crime. You know, that’s just being suppressive. Mm-hmm. You’re being reasonable about it. Like you should be mad about it. But there is, you know, once the penalty’s there, then part of the penalty should be correction.

[01:43:31] Greg: Correction should do correction. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It should. It should. Correct. It should help fix, you know, 

[01:43:37] Aaron: now that they’ve been judged. 

[01:43:38] Greg: Now they’ve been judged, they should get, they’d be like, okay, here’s my penalty. Here’s the cool thing there as well that I, that I enjoy as well. The guys that are in prison have got enough of a self conscience to have been caught.

[01:43:49] Brad: That’s right. 

[01:43:50] Greg: And to have been like, okay. 

[01:43:51] Brad: That’s right. 

[01:43:52] Greg: You know? Okay. Somebody, I’m, I was kind of like hoping somebody would stop 

[01:43:55] Brad: me. I need to be stopped. 

[01:43:56] Greg: I need to be stopped. 

[01:43:57] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:43:57] Greg: It’s the guys that are not in there that continue to commit the crimes [01:44:00] that I don’t like. Wow. And I’m like, you, you, you know, and, and we could all think of examples of guys like that, but at least the guys that are there, I’m like, okay, I’m willing to help them because of that one thing they got, they, they were, they, there’s something in their makeup or whatever, or their constitutional characteristic that they were like, okay, I’m gonna get court so that I could be stopped.

[01:44:21] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:44:22] Greg: Interesting viewpoint, huh? 

[01:44:23] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:44:24] Greg: Interesting viewpoint. 

[01:44:25] Brad: I had that data, but I’ve never looked at that. The way that you just 

[01:44:29] Aaron: Yeah. The guys that are out of there, same with, similar with like, uh, mental hospitals. The guys, there are victims of the other guys who never 

[01:44:34] Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s right.

[01:44:35] Greg: You know? Wow. So, yeah. Really cool. 

[01:44:38] Brad: Oh my gosh. Unreal. Yeah. Okay, Greg. I, I think we gotta call it there. I think I can handle that anymore. I gonna never go home. I’m gonna go straight to a prison. An 

[01:44:51] Aaron: I wanna say one thing. Yes. Thank you. 

[01:44:53] Greg: Ah. My 

[01:44:54] Aaron: pleasure. Thank you for all these lives you’ve saved, these families who you’ve put back together and the work you’re [01:45:00] doing.

[01:45:00] Aaron: It’s honestly incredible and I appreciate it very much. 

[01:45:04] Greg: Well, thank you. Yeah. I mean it’s an honor and it’s like, you know, the more shoulders we have, the more shoulders we have to the wheel, the more boots on the ground we have, we can make this a civilization that we can be proud of. 

[01:45:14] Brad: Yeah, that’s 

[01:45:15] Greg: right.

[01:45:15] Greg: Yeah. Wow. 

[01:45:16] Aaron: Alright guys, those don’t do nothing. 

[01:45:18] Greg: Peace. Peace.