Don't Do Nothing

[00:00:00] Stephen: I come from a tiny village in the north of England. 40 people in my village. And then I Googled what’s the highest paid job. It said investment banker. Great, I’ll go do that. Didn’t even know what an investment banker is. I was voted top analyst in the city the day before I quit. This team, by the way, has a philosophy.

[00:00:11] Stephen: It’s called up or out, which means your pay is either doubled or you’re fired. And I’m there and I’m playing my song and I’m just… Who knows how much time’s gone by. It’s just paradise. I turn around, and there’s, like, 600 people in silence with their phone. Look at the lifestyle that’s promoted in major pop music.

[00:00:25] Stephen: Yeah. Then look who owns the labels. Yeah. Look at the companies that are invested in those labels and what they might be interested in promoting. I got offered a record deal when I had no money for 600,000 pounds. I want you to liken being in love to being on drugs. 

[00:00:37] Aaron: You’re joking me. 

[00:00:38] Stephen: And I’m waiting.

[00:00:39] Stephen: Every time a new artist gets signed, I’m like, “I’m just waiting for the over-sexualization of you.” I’m waiting for the moment where you come and make a song that’s about like, “Let’s get fucked up. It’s Friday.” Yeah. I wanna show them like, no, this is not what music’s about. This is music. It’s this higher level thing.

[00:00:52] Stephen: It’s this aesthetics. This is building new worlds. It’s, it’s the sound of dreams. It’s the imagination of future. It’s I want a [00:01:00] life with laughter lines on my face and, uh, grazes on my knees, and I wanna really feel life. 

[00:01:04] Aaron: Guys, today I have a super good friend on the show who is actually ultra famous because he has performed for some of the top people in the world, people that he cannot mention.

[00:01:16] Aaron: Uh, offline, I know a few of them, but let’s just say literally kings and queens, top Forbes level people, top celebrities. I mean, you think about the most richest, powerful, influential people, they call on this man to play for them privately, and that is the truth. He also has played in over 70 countries, is a former massive, uh, banker really- Yeah

[00:01:40] Aaron: investment banker- Yeah … working for huge firms doing some billion-dollar deals, and we’ll get into that story in a little bit. 

[00:01:46] Yeah. 

[00:01:46] Aaron: He has over a billion radio plays in Russia, okay? Um, he is the founder of Ridley Academy, which was just voted number one school by Insiders Weekly for piano on Earth, [00:02:00] okay?

[00:02:00] Aaron: Um, he has over 1.6 million members in the Ridley Academy, where a lot of them, most of them, have done a free course that he has delivered for a specific person who wants to learn to play piano, who wants to become an artist, who’s an artist on the inside and wants to come out. Mm-hmm. That’s one of his passions.

[00:02:19] Aaron: And there’s tens of thousands of people that have done the piano master class from Ridley Academy. Um, guys, welcome Steven Ridley on the 

[00:02:25] Stephen: show. Lovely. I love it. Thank you, Aaron. Pleasure to be here. Um, that was lovely. 

[00:02:30] Aaron: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I, I wanna start, like, people know you from music, okay? I know for…

[00:02:38] Aaron: I know you from music. I’ve seen you perform. Let’s assume they don’t. Let’s assume they don’t. Yeah. Okay, good. So this guy plays incredible. You should listen to him. I- I- I… It’s just amazing. But I, I wanna start before all that. I wanna s- ’cause, ’cause knowing your story kind of from the beginning, parts of it, I’m sure I don’t know all of it- Like how did you, before you became famous, before you got whatever these r- these hit [00:03:00] records, these songs and are playing, like how did you start in life and did you even know you were gonna go in that route as a little kid?

[00:03:06] Stephen: Not at all, dude. Look, okay, good. First of all, I don’t consider myself famous even slightly. Oh, okay. I really hate that. See, ’cause I 

[00:03:11] Brad: was gonna ask do you consider 

[00:03:12] Stephen: yourself famous? Not even slight- Yeah … well, with the people who know me. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, of, as a percentage of Earth, like so tiny. 

[00:03:18] Brad: Yeah. Mm. 

[00:03:18] Stephen: And in certain countries they really know me, and in other countries I’m, you know, not at all.

[00:03:22] Stephen: Yep. Um, which is a whole, that’s a whole conversation in itself. But it’s fun- I feel like I’m on a mission to meet the world. Mm-hmm. Mm. And on that mission I’m in still in single digit percentages. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Um, I come from a tiny village in the north of England. 40 people in my village. 

[00:03:36] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:03:37] Stephen: No children.

[00:03:37] Stephen: I was the only kid. Um- 

[00:03:40] Aaron: Oh, there was no 

[00:03:40] Stephen: kids around you? You were the only kid? The youngest person after me was my dad, and he was always traveling. What? Yeah. Literally. It was- Wow … a wild childhood. Well, not at all, actually. Very boring childhood. Um, we were this… You know, my mom and dad come from a very working class part of England.

[00:03:57] Stephen: Kind of lost all its industry in the ’70s. It’s a coal mining and [00:04:00] steel place called Sheffield, and all the coal mining and steel went to China, and there was huge, huge unemployment. Mm. So then a lot of criminality and a lot of, you know, what goes with that. And we’d gone to live in this tiny village, I think ’cause it was cheap, and, um, and so that was growing up.

[00:04:18] Stephen: I had no idea where we were financially at all until I went to my senior school at 11 years old. 

[00:04:27] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:27] Stephen: I went to a very, very, very posh senior school. Queen Elizabeth Grammar School. 

[00:04:32] Brad: Okay. 

[00:04:33] Stephen: Where old money meets no money. Um- And, uh, that’s when I realized- Does it 

[00:04:38] Brad: say it on the side of the building? 

[00:04:39] Stephen: No, it doesn’t.

[00:04:40] Stephen: Uh, it’s, it’s a, a, you know, an institution that hasn’t changed its traditions for hundreds of years. Yeah. All boys. 

[00:04:46] Yeah. 

[00:04:46] Stephen: Same uniform, you know. Mm-hmm. Um, that’s when I realized, oh, we’re from a, we’re from a different, you know, world. 

[00:04:53] Aaron: Class. 

[00:04:54] Stephen: 100%. And, um- 

[00:04:55] Aaron: But, but w- how did you get in? Do you have to, is that a paid school?

[00:04:58] Stephen: I got a scholarship. Okay. I, uh, [00:05:00] yeah, I, there was an entrance exam and I, I did really well, and then that’s how I was able to go there. 

[00:05:04] Aaron: Okay. 

[00:05:04] Stephen: But even with that scholarship, my parents put all of their earned income into that. Really? And they made me very aware of that. 

[00:05:08] Brad: Wow. 

[00:05:09] Stephen: And that was my deal with the family.

[00:05:10] Stephen: Mm. Like, you can go here, but you gotta be top. 

[00:05:12] Brad: Wow. 

[00:05:12] Stephen: And, um- You had 

[00:05:13] Brad: to be the top in that school? 

[00:05:14] Stephen: Yeah. You gotta leave. Like, they wanted me to get out. So like, “You’re gonna go to this school, you’re gonna get amazing grades- Wow … you’ll go to university, and then you’ll get a good job. And that’s your life.” 

[00:05:22] Brad: Mm.

[00:05:23] Stephen: “And if you agree to that, we’re gonna make it go right.” And then I would see how hard my parents were working to put that there for me. 

[00:05:29] Wow. 

[00:05:31] Stephen: So I never really thought about things like, do I wanna be a musician? That wasn’t on the, that’s not an option. It’s not available to me. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Loved music.

[00:05:37] Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:37] Stephen: Whole life I’ve loved music. I, since a kid, like, you know- You play a song, you’re anyone. It’s a beautiful thing. You play a song, you’re anyone, you’re anywhere. I’m not a kid in a village anymore. I play this Frank Sinatra, I’m Frank Sinatra. 

[00:05:51] Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:52] Stephen: Mm-hmm. I can feel the tuxedo. 

[00:05:53] Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:54] Stephen: You know? Yeah. I can taste the whiskey.

[00:05:56] Stephen: I don’t know a whis- whiskey taste. I’m like four years old. But I’ve got, [00:06:00] I’ve got the razzle dazzle. I pl- I play Rolling Stones, I am Mick Jagger. I’ve got- Right … the velvet tuxedo. You know, it’s, music w- to me was a great freedom, and it’s something I really loved, and it was something that everybody Around me, I think, was a little bit worried by how much I liked it.

[00:06:16] Mm. 

[00:06:18] Stephen: Particularly my dad. 

[00:06:19] Yeah. 

[00:06:19] Stephen: He’s very worried how much I liked it, and so he was, uh, very strongly shit on that, to be honest, a lot in my life. And, 

[00:06:27] Aaron: but, okay, describe like a, like a, an incident. Like a… 

[00:06:30] Stephen: Uh, yeah, okay. I got invited to be in the band at school. 

[00:06:33] Aaron: Okay. This is in the school of 40 people or the Queen Elizabeth school?

[00:06:36] Stephen: Queen Elizabeth school. Okay. Mm. So to be in the lead of the band. Mm. It’s like a big concert band, 150 people. It goes around the country. It’s like a real fancy band. And then my dad said, “Absolutely not.” 

[00:06:46] Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:47] Stephen: Like, you… Because, “Oh, it’s not a real subject.” 

[00:06:49] Mm-hmm. Yeah. “

[00:06:49] Stephen: You don’t make any money from music, and you need to build a resume because you’re not these kids.

[00:06:54] Stephen: You don’t have the safety net. You don’t have the connections.” Mm. “You don’t have big daddy’s money. One day, you’re gonna have to [00:07:00] compete with these guys, and they’re gonna call Daddy, and you’re gonna have nothing.” So- Wow. Wow. So your summer’s not going and playing in the show. It’s go make connections, go get work experience, go learn this, go do this.

[00:07:10] Stephen: And that’s what I did. I s- 

[00:07:12] Aaron: And, and could you just pause for a second? 

[00:07:13] Stephen: Yeah. 

[00:07:13] Aaron: So when, when you got to the school, you said they… He said, “Hey, are you gonna go to the school, and you’re gonna…” Was it, did you actually have a choice when they said you’re going to this 

[00:07:22] Stephen: school? I cho- I actually chose that school.

[00:07:24] Aaron: You did? 

[00:07:24] Stephen: Yeah, I did. Oh, wow. Um, I didn’t wanna live where I was living. 

[00:07:28] Aaron: Okay. 

[00:07:29] Stephen: Like, nobody was happy. 

[00:07:30] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:30] Stephen: N- least of all me. Mm. Like, I was a miserable child, and people used to tell me, “These are your golden years.” And I was like, “Fuck them. I’m f- I’m screwed.” I was not, I didn’t, I didn’t love my childhood, to be honest.

[00:07:40] Stephen: Like, I had no one to play with. I was lonely all the time. 

[00:07:41] Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:42] Stephen: I didn’t know what was wrong with me, and I would look at life like, “This doesn’t make sense.” Mm-hmm. I’d look at the adult world- 

[00:07:47] Mm-hmm … 

[00:07:47] Stephen: that I was set to inherit, and it was mostly drug addicts, unemployed people. 

[00:07:52] Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:53] Stephen: Everybody communicating what a victim they are.

[00:07:56] Stephen: Just a, a hard existence that did not look [00:08:00] fun. 

[00:08:00] Mm. 

[00:08:00] Stephen: And, um, a lot of people tell me, you know, “Enjoy this, enjoy this, ’cause, you know, it’s not always gonna be like this.” And I’m, “Fuck, this sucks. What are you talking about?” Yeah. It goes down from here. Hated being a kid. Yeah. Hated having to ask permission to have anything.

[00:08:12] Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:08:13] Stephen: Knowing that it was, like, putting my parents in a hard position. Hated asking for stuff. Um- 

[00:08:19] Aaron: Okay, so then, so then you said, “Hey, we’re gonna do everything to get you in the school.” So you made, you did make that pact. You’re like, “Hey, I 

[00:08:25] Stephen: will be in the top.” Basically what I… The true story is this.

[00:08:27] Stephen: My brother’s 11 years older. He flunked school. Oh. He came out with nothing and had to go in the military. Mm. And he went to a war zone at 16 years old- Mm … to Bosnia, catching chemical bombs- Mm … and getting shot at. Mm. And it broke my dad. Mm. My dad was also in the military, and, uh, he cried and cried and cried when my brother left home.

[00:08:45] Stephen: He felt he’d failed as a father- Wow … ’cause he was sure his son was coming back in a coffin. My brother had served in, he, he went to Afghanistan, Iraq. It broke my dad- Wow … that, because my brother was so smart at school, but my parents were very lenient. They let him do what he [00:09:00] wanted. He messed around a little bit.

[00:09:01] Stephen: He just messed up the exams, and that wound him up in the, in the military. My brother is one of the smartest people I know. 

[00:09:06] Stephen’s friend: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:06] Stephen: And, um, he’s now s- very successful and he’s made his life and all that stuff. But my dad was very determined that, like, he wouldn’t repeat that with me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So from a very, very young age, like the toys that I would get was like, you know, a spelling book.

[00:09:20] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:21] Stephen: And everything was like geared towards- Oh, man … and math quizzes and, you know, like- Oh, that’s brutal … I wasn’t allowed to watch TV. I’m not… Like, it was very, like, pushed of- 

[00:09:29] Aaron: But you did get a piano. Yeah. Okay. 

[00:09:32] Stephen: Eventually. Okay. Yeah. D- and that, you know, thanks to my dad’s frugality, that’s why I’m playing.

[00:09:37] Stephen: ‘Cause when I got that, quitting wasn’t an option. But equally, I couldn’t go too much into it, so it was this like… And I’m sure a lot of people have had that. That was, uh, that was my childhood. Uh, and that, you know, like everything, I wouldn’t change it for the world now. No. But, um, I wanted to be great.

[00:09:53] Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:53] Stephen: I wanted to be great. I wanted to make him proud. I wanted to get out of this situation. I had a concept of what life [00:10:00] could be, which mostly came from art. 

[00:10:01] Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:02] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:10:02] Stephen: I would, I would read these stories. I’d read Hemingway. I’d read, like, novels so different from the village. F. Scott Fitzgerald, so glamorous.

[00:10:10] Stephen: And I’d, I’d watch movies, and I’d listen to music, and I’d see these… And I was like, “Man, I want that life. I want, I want a life with laughter lines on my face and, uh, grazes on my knees, and I wanna really feel life, and nobody’s doing it here.” 

[00:10:25] Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:10:25] Stephen: So I don’t have a role model. I don’t wanna be like anybody here.

[00:10:28] Stephen: I don’t know who I do wanna be like. And the only idea I have is what my dad’s told me, is, “You work hard, you’ll get out of here.” So I thought, “Fuck it then. That’s my, that’s my plan.” Mm. And that was my plan. That was my single thing in life until it wasn’t. 

[00:10:42] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:45] Stephen: Yeah. 

[00:10:46] Brad: Oh my God. So what do you mean it w- until it wasn’t?

[00:10:50] Brad: Like, what, what, what was that? 

[00:10:53] Stephen: Many, many things. Yeah. Uh, came in layers. My dad died when I was 15. Hmm. Very suddenly, heart attack, in my [00:11:00] arms, dropped down dead. 

[00:11:01] Brad: In your arms? 

[00:11:02] Stephen: His last word was my name angrily. Uh, he was pissed off at me. Wow. And, um- 

[00:11:07] Oh. 

[00:11:08] Stephen: Yeah. I was… We were going on a family vacation, and I’d not got out of bed, and he screamed my name from the room next door.

[00:11:14] Stephen: And then loud thud, mom starts screaming. I thought he’d hit my mom, so I jump out of bed- Wow … running to, like, handle that situation. Mm-hmm. And my mom’s on the other side of a door, can’t open it. I get the door open, he’s laying on the floor and he’s dying. And, um, took him about three minutes to die.

[00:11:31] Stephen: Mm-hmm. I try my be- I don’t know what to do. Like, I am not prepared for this situation. I’m trying to do CPR, but the only CPR I’ve ever seen is, like, on a movie, so I don’t really know what I’m doing. And, uh, we have so much communication in this moment. He’s looking at me in the eyes the whole time. He’s not looking at happy pictures going by.

[00:11:52] Stephen: This is a guy with… I got all of the communication. 

[00:11:56] Mm. 

[00:11:56] Stephen: I got everything he was saying. It, he regretted everything. [00:12:00] A lot of apology, a lot of like, “What have I done? What have I not done?” And that’s it, he’s gone. Whole life changed. Breadwinner of the house, loudest guy in the house, the, the, the driving force of our family.

[00:12:13] Stephen: Mm. The just juggernaut, gone. And, uh

[00:12:20] Stephen: That most w- probably the most defining moment in my life because many th- many things. First I realized I’m next, I’m the next generation. This is my future. 

[00:12:30] Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:12:31] Stephen: It’s not theoretical anymore. And I’d learned, this is … I, I feel weird to say it, but I’d learned how not to live a life- 

[00:12:39] Hmm … 

[00:12:39] Stephen: from the way that he died.

[00:12:40] Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:41] Stephen: I do not want this to be my death. Mm-hmm. This is not a successful death. Mm-hmm. This is a guy with, spent his whole life telling me these dreams. Man, he, he could sing you a song with his dreams. They were beautiful. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He just never did any of them, and he had all these very pragmatic, very honorable reasons to not go after what he wanted.

[00:12:58] Stephen: You know, he’d often [00:13:00] put that on me. He really wanted, for example, to start a business importing tea from India. Fuck love that idea. 

[00:13:06] Brad: Yeah, it’s a great idea. 

[00:13:07] Stephen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It’s a great idea. Yeah. I mean, it just sounds like an adventure. We were going to India all the time. Uh- 

[00:13:13] Brad: You would go to India? 

[00:13:14] Stephen: Oh, my whole childhood.

[00:13:15] Stephen: A- Have you seen the movie The Pursuit of Happyness with Will Smith? 

[00:13:18] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:13:18] Stephen: That’s kind of, that was our childhood. Okay. He had to sell this product that nobody wanted. It’s called a split roller bearing. Nobody wants it. It’s this industrial product that goes in a coal mine. 

[00:13:26] Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:26] Stephen: And so his job was going around the world trying to sell coal mines this product they don’t really need or want.

[00:13:31] Stephen: Hmm. Wow. And he’d often take me with him, and a lot of these coal mines were in India, so that’s, we wound up in India a lot. Oh, wow. And he was like, “Man, we, we should bring tea in.” That sounded so exciting to me, but then it’d be like, “Well, I can’t do that because, you know, I’ve got your school and you want your Christmas presents.”

[00:13:45] Stephen: And I’m like, I don’t, I never get … I, I like, “No, I’d, I would love to go on that adventure with you.” 

[00:13:50] Stephen’s friend: Hmm. 

[00:13:51] Stephen: Yeah. Didn’t, and, um, so him dying was a big deal. Mm-hmm. It was a big deal of like, I don’t want this. And, um, [00:14:00] I doubled down on like, okay, I’m gonna get myself out of this. But I still had his playbook of how to get out of it.

[00:14:06] Stephen: I really buckled down. I got very good grades at school. Straight A’s, straight A stars. Go to a top university. Triple first class honors. Did three degrees, first class honors in all of them. 

[00:14:16] Brad: Oh, wow. Jeez. 

[00:14:16] Stephen: Um, worked like a dog, and then it’s end of uni. I’m like, “Now what? He never told me what to do after uni.”

[00:14:23] Stephen: Oh. We never like went that far. I don’t know what to do. And, um- 

[00:14:28] Aaron: But what, what did you, what, what degrees did you get? Like- 

[00:14:31] Stephen: Philosophy, politics, and economics. 

[00:14:33] Aaron: Oh, wow. 

[00:14:34] Stephen: Okay. Yeah. And, um- The first two are totally useless. The third one’s mildly s- less useless. I’ve not u- I mean, dude, they’re all… They’re, it’s nonsense.

[00:14:45] Stephen: Um- 

[00:14:46] Brad: Total nonsense. 

[00:14:47] Stephen: Total nonsense, dude. 

[00:14:48] Brad: Yeah. No, 

[00:14:48] Stephen: no. You’re trying to prove to some hypothetical person in the future that you’re smart. 

[00:14:51] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:14:51] Stephen: That’s right. And you’re not, ’cause you’ve done nothing. 

[00:14:52] Brad: That’s right. 

[00:14:53] Stephen: What had made me smart by that point is to get to that point, I’d started companies, I’d had so many different businesses, I’d had to hustle.

[00:14:59] Brad: [00:15:00] Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:00] Stephen: When my dad died, we had no money, no hot water for three years. Like, it’s game over, and I’m still going to this fancy school at the age where everyone’s getting their first cars. 

[00:15:08] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:15:08] Stephen: And I’m pretending I’m Greenpeace. Pretending I’m an environmentalist. No, no, I don’t want a car. No, I don’t, I don’t believe in it.

[00:15:14] Stephen: Um, yeah, actually, I just think it’s very moral. Um- I’m actually socialist, so I don’t believe in this evil, you know- Yeah … Lamborghinis. Um- Yeah … wouldn’t want it. Don’t want it. I could have one, but I don’t want one. Um, all this kind of nonsense, you know? Um, the university I went to was full of very, very, very wealthy gen- like wealthy in America is like your parents worked hard.

[00:15:37] Stephen: Wealthy in England is like 800 years ago you probably, you know, took a country. Mm-hmm. Yeah. This is like generational wealth. Yeah. Yeah. Like, this is a different kinda, different kind of money. And I was at school with these guys. 

[00:15:47] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:15:48] Stephen: And they are dumb as fuck, and they are dumb. They are dumb. And, uh, and I, I’d had to develop muscles they didn’t have, this knack for survival [00:16:00] whilst being around them.

[00:16:01] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:16:01] Stephen: Nobody from the villages in these… Nobody from the village at my school, nobody from the village at my university. I started putting to- together, like, what their parents did for money. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. A lot of commonalities, and then I googled what’s the highest paid job towards the end of my degree.

[00:16:16] Stephen: It said investment banker. Great, I’ll go do that. Didn’t even know what an investment banker is. Mm. Don’t know what it is. Don’t know what it does. Fuck it. If I’m gonna give up all my freedom, let it be for the world’s biggest check. 

[00:16:25] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:16:26] Stephen: And, uh- 

[00:16:27] Brad: Max amount of money. 

[00:16:28] Stephen: Yeah. 

[00:16:28] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:16:28] Stephen: And I, I applied to every bank that there is, and I went through loads of interviews and- Man, I got a lot of good stories about that.

[00:16:36] Stephen: I, I… Yeah. A dude came to- a, a dude came up. I did an internship At 

[00:16:41] a bank 

[00:16:42] Stephen: Yeah 

[00:16:42] Okay 

[00:16:42] Stephen: But the way that I got into this internship, how it all started was there was a careers fair, and all the different companies come to my university and they all pitch the students on, like, “Come and work for Rolls-Royce,” or, “Come and work for- Mm

[00:16:53] Stephen: whatever, IBM. So Goldman Sachs, it’s this really big investment bank, [00:17:00] had come there- Yeah … and they were doing this stand. And Goldman Sachs gets, gets a printout of who the top students are, and then they have this, like, thing they do. So I don’t know about that, but I get a call like, “Hey, we wanna take you for a steak dinner in this five-star hotel.”

[00:17:15] Stephen: I didn’t even know the town had a five-star hotel. Mm. Mm. I’d not had steak for years. Like, “Fuck, having a free meal. I’ll, I’ll be there.” And, uh, I show up, and this guy’s like, “Okay, like, i- so nice to meet you.” They’re, they’re all so good-looking, really good-looking, glamorous people, and I was like, “Man, this is so cool.”

[00:17:32] Stephen: And they’re like, “What do you wanna do?” And I was like, “Well, you know, I d- I don’t know.” I was, I was quite interested in dressing women. I know it’s a really random thing, but I always wanted to dress women. Oh, 

[00:17:41] wow. 

[00:17:42] Stephen: My mom didn’t think she was beautiful. Mm. But I always thought I could… You know, it’s how you wrap it.

[00:17:47] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:17:48] Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:48] Stephen: Didn’t know how to make that a career, but that was just a random thing. It’s, “Oh, maybe I’ll do that. Maybe I could be a barrister, could be an engineer, could start a hedge fund.” All over the place. And, uh- 

[00:17:57] Aaron: Not what they’re used to probably. 

[00:17:58] Stephen: Yeah, and, uh- 

[00:17:59] Aaron: Wait, [00:18:00] you 

[00:18:00] Brad: said these things 

[00:18:01] Stephen: in the 

[00:18:01] Brad: interview?

[00:18:01] Stephen: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:18:02] Aaron: Oh, wow. 

[00:18:03] Stephen: This wasn’t even an interview. This was just having a dinner. 

[00:18:05] Aaron: Fine. It’s a pre, it’s an interview, dude. It’s, yes. It’s a, yeah. They’re, they’re definitely interviewing you. It’s, I got 

[00:18:08] Brad: it. It’s not a interview. 

[00:18:10] Stephen: Kind of, yeah. 

[00:18:10] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:18:11] Stephen: Um, and he was like, “Well, you know, if you like fashion, you should go work at Prada ’cause they make really good clothes.

[00:18:18] Stephen: And if you li-…” “Oh, I think I’d liked engineering.” “If you like engineering, you know, Rolls-Royce, they make the best engines.” Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:23] Brad: Yeah. “

[00:18:23] Stephen: Um, but if you like money, you should work with us ’cause we make money.” 

[00:18:26] Mm. 

[00:18:27] Stephen: And then he like, he hammered the point, and I was like, “Where do I sign?” Where the fuck do I sign? I…

[00:18:35] Stephen: ‘Cause by that point, I’d got over a decade of just being surrounded by people with money and me not having any. 

[00:18:40] Yeah. 

[00:18:42] Stephen: Yeah. Um, and which is ironic. I, you know, I now play shows for, like, super rich people who- Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:47] Yeah … 

[00:18:48] Stephen: it, it’s, uh, it’s weird how that actually now thinking about that. Um, yeah. And so I go there.

[00:18:55] Stephen: There’s loads of interviews. That particular year they’d fired a lot of people after a huge economic [00:19:00] crash. Um, there was 32 places, over 16 and a half thousand applicants, and there was one position in the top team. This team has never hired anybody who’s new into the bank. 

[00:19:13] Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:14] Stephen: Um, wonderful Australian man called David Raftis, uh, is doing the final interview.

[00:19:20] Stephen: I’ve done all these stages of interviews. This dude walks in, and he’s the head of that top team. 

[00:19:27] Mm. 

[00:19:29] Stephen: Big dog. 

[00:19:29] Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:29] Stephen: Yeah. Like, you know, smells different. I don’t know. Yeah. Skin looks different. Yeah. Like, whatever he’s eating. Yeah, yeah. Like, his skin looks good. Yeah. You’ve got that skin. He’s got like… You know, you’ve been on some good salmon for a long time.

[00:19:41] Stephen: It’s got that skill. So he walks in, I was like, “Wow.” And I was wearing a wedding suit that I’d rented from a wedding rental shop- Oh my God … not even knowing that it was a, like it had tails. I’m sitting there in a stupid suit that I’d rented ’cause I didn’t own a suit, and I’m sitting in the office, uh, with like the white silk tie.

[00:19:59] Stephen: Like, [00:20:00] stupid. And, um, he walks in and he got these questions that he had to read. All right, so, uh, first question was, how many tennis balls fit in a Boeing 737? I mean, I got it. I was like, “Okay, here we go.” So, you know, so if you were to calculate the area of a sphere, you got half the circumference multiplied by the radius squared.

[00:20:19] Stephen: I’m going through all this. Okay, and the s- and the area of a cone, and the area of a cylinder, and then, and then I get confused. And then I was like, “Well, you know, uh, come to think of it, um, well, how would you go about it?” And, uh- Oh, 

[00:20:31] Aaron: so you asked the guy? 

[00:20:32] Stephen: Yeah. Okay. And he was like, “Oh, I don’t know, mate. I don’t give a sh- I’m a, uh, I’m an investment banker.”

[00:20:36] Stephen: “Don’t know anything about that.” And as soon as he said that, I was like, oh, you don’t wanna be here. I get it. You don’t wanna be here. You don’t wanna interview me. This is bullshit for you. 

[00:20:42] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:20:43] Stephen: You just have to do… And like this is where my life muscle came in. 

[00:20:48] Mm. 

[00:20:50] Stephen: So then I just I, I got in c- I got the, I got the vibe.

[00:20:53] Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:54] Stephen: So he asked me the next question. The next question was like, uh, y- you have either four or five cups that weigh 10 [00:21:00] grams. And one of them out of that selection weighs nine grams. 

[00:21:05] Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:06] Stephen: And you have a weighing scale that you can only use once. How do you tell which one weighs nine grams? And then jokingly I was like, “Well, I’d, I’d throw the scale on the floor and I’d just pick them all up and whichever one’s lighter.”

[00:21:18] Stephen: And, uh, and, and he burst out laughing and I was like, “Oh, we’ve got something going.” And we’re having like the time of our life. We’re, we’re having some fun. And he went, “Look, I’m gonna be really honest with you.” He’s like, “You’re not gonna get this job.” I was like, “Right.” That was a real problem to me ’cause I’d like-

[00:21:33] Stephen: the train ticket. You’ve been through like a bazillion interviews. Yeah. Yeah. Literally. I was like, “Oh.” And he was like, “I… Well, let me ju- I’ll just ask you, like, I’ve got outside, I’ve got a guy who’s an actual rocket scientist from NASA. We’ve got a dude with 20 years experience from JP Morgan. We’ve got a dude who’d helped built CERN, the, uh, you know, the particle collider in- Yeah

[00:21:50] Stephen: in Europe. So why would… You know, I’ve got a, a guy whose surname is Rothschild. I’ve got another s- … uh, guy whose surname is Naylor Leyland. Why would I pick you?” [00:22:00] Hmm. And I just like, “‘Cause, because I’m not that. I don’t have any safety net.” 

[00:22:06] Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:06] Stephen: And I just really was honest with him. Just like, “Look, because I’m not that.

[00:22:09] Stephen: I don’t have a safety net. I’ve not got big daddy. I need this, I need this.” 

[00:22:12] Mm-hmm. “

[00:22:13] Stephen: So I might not know the answer, but I’ll stay up all night until I get the answer. I’ll work my fucking ass off. Hopefully you can see I’m smart. What more do you want?” He’s like, “All right, mate. Well, thanks anyway.” And then he stood up, he walked to the door, opened the door, and said to…

[00:22:26] Stephen: I, I am like going through the door. Mm-hmm. I’m walking down the corridor, and then he just shouts to the rest of the room, “All right, everybody fuck off. Ridley, you’re started.” 

[00:22:32] What? 

[00:22:33] Stephen: Yeah. Wow. And I started that day. 

[00:22:35] Oh. 

[00:22:35] Stephen: Instant hired. 

[00:22:36] What? Wow. 

[00:22:38] Stephen: Yeah. And, uh, and that’s how I got into the internship at Ba- And then after the internship I got the job.

[00:22:43] Stephen: And that was it. That’s how I got in banking. 

[00:22:45] Brad: Wow. Wow. I, I have a, a related but, but a little bit different question. 

[00:22:49] Stephen: Go on then. 

[00:22:50] Brad: Do you find… ‘Cause one, one thing I feel like I, I kinda got what you were realizing about rich people. You’re surrounded by rich people, now you’re do- doing sh- like, you know. I 

[00:22:58] Stephen: never even answered your question, by the way.

[00:22:59] Stephen: How did I [00:23:00] figure out it wasn’t right? But yeah, go on. 

[00:23:01] Brad: No, it’s okay. Uh, it’s, it’s okay. Yeah. We’ll have… I’m sure we’ll have many unanswered questions. What, what did you learn about, like, dealing with the ultra rich? Like, that clearly you’re applying successfully now, like, good, bad, or indifferent.

[00:23:23] Brad: ‘Cause I would say the reason I’m asking that is there must be some piece of- He’s looking at it … tech that you’ve discovered that some other 

[00:23:29] Stephen: people haven’t. Well, I mean, I’ve, I, I will say something. Like, everybody, if they’re in employment, solves problems, and rich people are just people who’ve chosen to confront and solve large problems.

[00:23:41] Stephen: And whatever. There, there’s different kinds of rich people. The vast majority of rich people didn’t make the money- Mm … and they’re n- neurotic and psychotic, and they normally live in the orbit of the individual that’s the hardest to meet ’cause he’s working all the time, who is making the money. [00:24:00] And one productive guy can support 100 Klingon, you know, rah-rah, wearing pinky rings, going around pretending like they earn it.

[00:24:10] Stephen: They’re very easy to find. They’re in every nightclub in Knightsbridge. You know, you go to any fancy place in any major city, and the club’s full of them. 

[00:24:17] Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:19] Stephen: But they’re not doing anything. And they’re– It was, it took me a long time to realize they’re not valuable. Mm. They look valuable because they’re in nice wrapping paper.

[00:24:27] Mm. 

[00:24:28] Stephen: But they are the same as the unemployed people where I come from. Yeah. The same. They’re criminal, they’re crazy, and they just have the means to very much act that out. Mm. So it’s a bit more humorous. Uh, you know, the– But the same, same mentality. And then there is the other person who I’ve always managed to find and get along with, where I feel very similar to them.

[00:24:55] Stephen: They’re scrappy, they’re a survivor, they’re willing to be [00:25:00] the janitor or the top guy. They have no self-importance. They’re not in any way trying to impress people, they’re just doing the work, and they’re there to solve a problem, just like, you know, a plumber’s there to solve a problem, just like they’re very, very no airs and graces, it’s just they’re trying to solve something big.

[00:25:19] Stephen: And that normally means stress, it normally means organizing a lot of people, ’cause it takes a lot of people to confront a big problem. It means they’re taking on a lot of risk. They’re having to negotiate banks and insurers and lawyers and this, and it takes a special kind of individual. They’re never a victim, they’re never complaining.

[00:25:37] Stephen: They’re usually very curious. They’re normally very hungry to find out more. They always like, uh, p- p- they like my story and, uh, you know, it’s fun. I become very good friends with these guys ’cause we have a lot of similarities. 

[00:25:50] Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:50] Stephen: And they like that I left banking to be a musician. They like that like- Mm

[00:25:54] Stephen: they love the scrappy thing. 

[00:25:55] Mm. 

[00:25:55] Stephen: And, uh, and I, I find I get along with them because they’re normally the only one at the event that’s not [00:26:00] this like rah, rah, coked up- 

[00:26:03] Mm-hmm … 

[00:26:03] Stephen: t- you know, full of kind of- 

[00:26:05] Brad: Mm-hmm … 

[00:26:05] Stephen: girl in silk or whatever. 

[00:26:07] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:26:08] Stephen: So I like those. Uh, what I learned is I, the people who produce ultra admiration for them.

[00:26:13] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:26:13] Stephen: And the other dudes, you know, no different, just different wrapping paper. 

[00:26:17] Brad: Mm. Oh. Differentiation. Yeah. 

[00:26:18] Stephen: Yeah. I like pe- I like craftsmen. I’ve always liked people that work. I just always like pe- I admire people that work in whatever… Like, go to a sushi restaurant and the dude who’s sitting there doing it, ultra admiration.

[00:26:29] Stephen: My mom was a nurse in a hospital, very professional. 

[00:26:33] Aaron: You know- By the way, she is, was a midwife. Or is a midwife. 

[00:26:36] Stephen: Is midwife. 35,000 babies. 

[00:26:38] Aaron: 35,000 babies. Whoa. Yeah, yeah. I think that shouldn’t go un- uncommon 

[00:26:42] Stephen: for her. Dude. Wow. 

[00:26:43] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:26:43] Stephen: I did a birthday party a few months ago. I made this whole speech about her.

[00:26:45] Stephen: Like, that’s a successful person to me. It’s getting done. Mm-hmm. It’s like when you can put a stat up, I did that. And, um, you know, that’s what I admire. That’s what I… And sometimes that comes with money, and sometimes it [00:27:00] doesn’t. And, um, you know, but I tell you, that woman’s rich. 

[00:27:03] Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:04] Stephen: Mm. She has nothing that she wants.

[00:27:05] Stephen: I’m in a position where I can buy her things now, and there’s nothing that she wants. She’s a very satisfied woman Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:27:13] Aaron: That’s beautiful. 

[00:27:13] Stephen: Yeah. 

[00:27:14] Aaron: So now when, now you got into this investment banking, the, the internship, okay? Yeah. Was the guy s- he knew he made the right choice? I mean, you, you crushed this internship, or how, how was it from the first day that

[00:27:25] Aaron: Was it- 

[00:27:25] Stephen: All right, at, you wanna know the first three days? Yeah. Not the internship- … but of, of when I got the actual job. Yeah. So I did the internship eight weeks. To be honest, the whole internship I was obsessed with a girl called Roberta, who was so hot. She was the only girl in the internship. I c- I went to an all boys school.

[00:27:39] Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:40] Stephen: And I come from a village where there’s no other kids. Like, figure this out. Figure out what I’m saying to you. Like, I was ready to go, and this girl was perfect to me. First, she was female. And- End of list … yeah, literally. But she was so intelligent and so like… She was from Milan. [00:28:00] She’s so good-looking.

[00:28:02] Stephen: Um, if she ever ends up watching this, Roberta Vetzoli, I love you still. Uh, no, I’m joking. Uh, no, she just, she blew my mind. She was just so elegant, and I had so much admiration for her, and everything else was uninteresting to me. Mm-hmm, yeah. Banking’s very not interesting. Mm-hmm. She was interesting. Yeah.

[00:28:15] Stephen: So the eight weeks I was just doing whatever it took to, like, close that deal. Was not thinking about banking at all. Then I got the job in banking. 

[00:28:23] Aaron: But how’d you get the job if you… Did you, like- 

[00:28:25] Stephen: God, you know, ’cause- Did you work? You did it. I- Yeah, no, I worked. I, of course, yeah. Okay. Worked 20 hours a day.

[00:28:29] Aaron: Right. 

[00:28:29] Stephen: But I realized very quickly that, like, they’d invested so much to get to that point. And again, it’s the same thing. It’s the same thing that I’ve had my whole life. Like, the guys who are in there, a lot of them got that job because of their surname. 

[00:28:42] Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

[00:28:43] Stephen: It’s just how it is.

[00:28:44] Stephen: Mm-hmm. And they’re not the smartest cookie in the, in the, in the pot. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And I, and I knew I was there, like, I just know I can outwork you. I know I can solve problems you can’t. I know I can be valuable. Yeah. I know I can make myself valuable. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I’m secure. 

[00:28:57] Aaron: Yep. 

[00:28:59] Stephen: And as [00:29:00] long… It’s kinda like, you know, you’re running from the lion, you just need to be faster than the other guy.

[00:29:03] Stephen: Yeah. It’s like I just need to be able to provide more value than the guy one above me- Mm-hmm … ’cause that’s the position I’m gonna inherit. So I looked at the work he was doing. Okay, I can do that. Like, I can do that. And I can go beyond, and I can see what he’s running into and discover, like, what is it that he’s…

[00:29:17] Stephen: and try and solve that for him. And it’s the same skill set I’ve been doing my whole life, just what’s needed, what can I do, what can I give for you? But that, I’ve been that way my whole life. Mm-hmm. So that was not, um- You know, I wanna s- I, that- 

[00:29:30] Aaron: Yeah, so you stopped, you stopped, you, you, you 

[00:29:32] Stephen: finished it

[00:29:32] Stephen: yeah. That was that. But she w- she was different. That was like a, that was- Man. But I tell you it w- so then I get the real job. No, she’s cool. Sorry. So then I, I get the real job, right? The first three days is, um, I got put in the, that, the h- so it all ends like- Wait, 

[00:29:48] Brad: so I gotta know, did you hook it up or what?

[00:29:49] Stephen: Yeah. We, we, yeah, we, yeah. Okay, great. Good job. I got, I c- we could do half an hour on that story. You know how that, that, how that all happened is I went to, I was so nervous to talk to her. So it’s an eight-week [00:30:00] internship. 

[00:30:00] Yeah. 

[00:30:00] Stephen: For six and a half weeks I didn’t say anything to her. 

[00:30:04] Mm. 

[00:30:04] Stephen: I’d just, like, go up to her with, like, a paper copy or whatever.

[00:30:06] Stephen: I just couldn’t, I was petrified. And, um, couldn’t get anything out. And she was so friendly and smiley and, like… And I was so awkward and I’ve g- like, you know, I’ve … I, I don’t know what to do. So then I j- you know, it’s l- and I went to this magic show. And I was so, like, out my head happy about this magic… It was really an inspiring magic show.

[00:30:28] Stephen: I’d been to in London, wow, going to a theater. I, no theaters where I come from. 

[00:30:31] Brad: Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. 

[00:30:32] Stephen: It was just an amazing experience. Like, wow, I’m in London, and this is kinda cool. And, um, and then I had to go back to the office to, to, to work, and it was, like, Saturday midnight or whatever, and she’s the only other person on the floor.

[00:30:44] Stephen: And I walked up and was like, “Oh, you know, I just went and saw this magic show.” I had something to talk about finally. Mm. Ah. So I told her about this magic show, and then she’s like, you know, doing that thing where she finds you cute and she’s laughing at what I’m saying. And I’m like, “Oh my God, this is like a, it’s like I’ve seen this in the movies.”

[00:30:56] Stephen: And-[00:31:00] 

[00:31:00] Stephen: And, um, and, and then I, like, closed on having a lunch with me, and then we’d have lunch together. And, um- And then she was going back to Milan after this internship. I was like, “Fuck, what do I do?” So it was, like, the day before the end of the internship, I was like, “Oh, you know, I’m just, I’m going to Milan next week.

[00:31:16] Stephen: Do you have any recommendations?” And it’s like, “Oh, you’re coming to Milan? Let’s meet up.” Then we met up, and then, you know. Good job. 

[00:31:22] Aaron: Then you had time. 

[00:31:24] Stephen: Yeah. 

[00:31:24] Aaron: You 

[00:31:24] Stephen: had time. We only ki- Oh, wait. I mean, I wish… We only kissed. I was such an innocent kid. And, uh, yeah, I was a sweet- I didn’t do anything untoward. But she’s an amazing woman.

[00:31:34] Stephen: And then that was that. She actually told me at the end of this week, like, oh, whatever. She’s like, “You know, I, I, I want a Hermes bag. I need a guy that can buy me a Hermes.” And I was like, “Right.” 

[00:31:44] Huh. 

[00:31:45] Stephen: Yeah, really, huh. That was the huh. Yeah. We, like, hung out, and she basically said to me, like, “You’re not gonna be able to provide the life I want.”

[00:31:50] Stephen: And she lived in a house that Tom Ford had designed- 

[00:31:54] Mm … 

[00:31:54] Stephen: as, like, a gift to the family, and- Oh … comes from this ultra-wealthy family. And she basically said that, “And I want [00:32:00] that.” And I was like, “Fuck, mate. That’s the one thing I can’t do.” 

[00:32:03] Brad: Dude, you know- Well- … what’s so wild about that? There’s, uh, you know, you know the book Shoe Dog 

[00:32:07] by Phil Knight?

[00:32:07] I was gonna say that! I was gonna say the same thing. Hold on. 

[00:32:10] Brad: He, he made 

[00:32:10] me read this last week. I was literally 

[00:32:11] Aaron: gonna say the same thing. 

[00:32:12] Brad: He made me read this last week. I can’t believe it. I, I w- When you talk, I’m 

[00:32:14] Aaron: like, “Dude, 

[00:32:14] Brad: I wanted to say this.” Hey, I, I did my homework. Aaron said, “Hey, you have to read…”

[00:32:18] Brad: Last week, last Wednesday, he says, “You have to read this book.” I had it read by Sunday, ’cause it’s actually an 

[00:32:22] Aaron: awesome book. Dude, Shoe Dog by Phil Knight. 

[00:32:23] Brad: Great book. 

[00:32:23] Aaron: Unbelievable story. 

[00:32:24] Brad: Unbelievable book. You 

[00:32:24] Aaron: need to read it. But he- 

[00:32:25] Brad: Bro … 

[00:32:25] Aaron: because I recommended to him, now he’s gonna take it. But it’s all good.

[00:32:27] Brad: The same thing happened to Phil Knight when he was a young lad. Okay. When he was, like, in his mid-20s. Okay. He met a girl in Japan who was on holiday from the US. He’s from the US. M- Hiking Mount Fuji, and then they have this whole long-distance romance, da da da da da. And then it’s like, “You’re not classy enough for me,” ’cause she came from money.

[00:32:44] Stephen: Dude, I’ve got some stories. 

[00:32:45] Aaron: But guess what happened then? He became- 

[00:32:47] Brad: Then he 

[00:32:47] Aaron: became Phil Knight. I mean, look at 

[00:32:48] Brad: what he 

[00:32:48] Aaron: did. You see? He’s 

[00:32:49] Brad: worth $10 billion. 

[00:32:50] Stephen: Yeah, I 

[00:32:50] Aaron: know it is. Bro. Yeah. 

[00:32:51] Stephen: It’s a crazy- I’ve got, I’ve got, I’ve got, I’ve got some… I’ve got… That’s not the first and last time that happened. And I’ve got some, I’ve got [00:33:00] some stories that, um…

[00:33:03] Stephen: I’ll just give you one thing. Yeah, but- I’ll tell you one thing. Okay, okay. Right, right. There, there’s this g- There’s this- 

[00:33:06] Aaron: He clearly wants to talk about women. 

[00:33:07] Stephen: No, no, I don’t, I don’t want to. Yes, yes, I… No, no. It’s not that. It’s just- Who doesn’t? … you bring up a point that is very true. Yeah. I had a thing where, like, I was very, like, I was super popular in Russia.

[00:33:16] Stephen: I got this number one hit. Uh, it’s, like, playing on the radio everywhere you go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I c- I’m, I’m playing all these shows for super wealthy people. I don’t know who they… Like, I don’t know anything about Russian culture, so I don’t know who is who. I don’t know who’s famous, who’s this, who’s that, which is actually very helpful.

[00:33:28] Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:33:28] Stephen: And, um, 

[00:33:30] Brad: this- You just treat them like e- people … 

[00:33:31] Stephen: people. Yeah. And, um, there’s this one girl, I just… She’s amazing. Oh, she’s amazing. And, um-

[00:33:42] Stephen: I don’t know who she is. She’s at this party. She’s just someone who’s, uh, amazing and beautiful. And this one moment, the, uh, uh … Something happens when I play music. All of a sudden, like, after being this really introvert kid my whole life, something happens in the world. You play a piano, and [00:34:00] women who shouldn’t be interested in you are sometimes interested in you.

[00:34:02] Stephen: So this girl’s like very interested in me. I’m, “Ah, this is amazing,” like … And we’re chatting and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I do, I, I am a, a, an, a sweet, I’m a s- I’m a sweet guy. I know I am. So I was very romantic about it. And I was, “Oh, let’s go here.” And then we went to Verona and I took her to Verona, and had this very romantic experience.

[00:34:21] Stephen: And then we, like, get together, and I’m like, “Man, you know, you’re … This is my wife. This is gonna be my wife.” Yeah. I was so into this woman. And then we had this amazing experience, then we went somewhere else, and yada, yada, yada. And then I ended up going to Russia, and then she’d come to a show She’d seen somebody she knew at this show, and then she left very abruptly.

[00:34:40] Hmm. 

[00:34:41] Stephen: And, uh, wouldn’t rec- wouldn’t return any of my texts. 

[00:34:44] Yeah. 

[00:34:44] Stephen: I was like, “Well, what happened?” We’d been together for maybe six weeks, and then this guy came who’s really good friends. Her best friend’s brother was driving me in his Rolls-Royce through Moscow, police escort. And I was like, “Dude, I don’t know what’s going on with this lady’s name.”[00:35:00] 

[00:35:00] Stephen: He’s like, “Bro, you don’t marry the entertainment.” And I was like, “What?” And he was like, “You fuck the help. You don’t marry the help.” And I’m like, “Ugh, oh my God. I’m so stupid.” And I realized that in her world, this was nothing. I’m just a cool little play thing. Hmm. And I was like, “Oh my God, that hurt. That really hurt.”

[00:35:21] Stephen: Hmm. ‘Cause then I was like, I’m not judged on the merit of my character. I’m not judged on my- Wait, I’m confused. 

[00:35:27] Brad: Are you the help or is she the help? 

[00:35:28] Stephen: No, I’m the help. 

[00:35:29] Brad: Oh. Oh. 

[00:35:30] Stephen: I’m the help, dude. 

[00:35:31] Brad: Oh. 

[00:35:31] Aaron: I did, I got that she was the help. 

[00:35:33] Stephen: Yeah, I th- I thought that too. No, dude. Wow. She was from the richest family, one of the richest families in Russia.

[00:35:36] Brad: Oh. 

[00:35:37] Stephen: Of which I, I had no idea un- until we started dating. And that, by the way, isn’t as cool as it sounds, ’cause that just means- Yeah, yeah … every date’s gonna cost me 80 grand because I’ve gotta get security and this and that. It’s not a, it’s not a- 

[00:35:47] Brad: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:35:48] Stephen: But that’s why I can, you know… I just wasn’t thinking with it, and so I was like, “Fuck.”

[00:35:53] Stephen: Like, it was such a- Mm-hmm. I’ve got, dude, I’ve got some, quite a lot of stories of that. Anyway, um- 

[00:35:58] Aaron: So you reali- [00:36:00] basically you were like, “Hey, this is gonna go down,” but she was like- And the situation, I, I- … “I gotta go out with the rock star,” basically or whatever. Not the rock star, but- I was just 

[00:36:06] Stephen: something, I was just fun.

[00:36:07] Stephen: I was, you 

[00:36:08] Aaron: know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:36:09] Stephen: But, you know. 

[00:36:11] Aaron: I got it. 

[00:36:11] Stephen: Yeah. 

[00:36:12] Aaron: Okay. Well, thank 

[00:36:13] Brad: you. Okay. Well, fast-forward through the heartbreak or maybe, maybe rewri- rewind, rather. 

[00:36:18] Stephen: Yeah. 

[00:36:18] Brad: So you’re, you’re in your investment banking job. You’re killing it, I assume. 

[00:36:22] Stephen: I was voted top analyst in the city the day 

[00:36:24] Brad: before I 

[00:36:24] Stephen: quit.

[00:36:26] Brad: Good. So you led me right to where I wanted to go next. Hmm. The day you quit. Yeah. After being voted the top analyst in what city? 

[00:36:33] Don’t, but s- London. No, but you miss so much, dude. What about the helicopter and the deal and the thing and- 

[00:36:38] Brad: Oh, dude, there’s so much. I know. Oh, I just, like I- You know so 

[00:36:40] much, Aaron.

[00:36:40] You know- I know, I know. There’s, like, so much. 

[00:36:43] Brad: Yeah. Dude, talk 

[00:36:44] Stephen: about the 

[00:36:44] Aaron: helicopter and the guy. But let’s talk about, let’s talk about, well, let’s talk about a de- let’s at least talk about one deal. Like, I don’t wanna miss the- Oh, that’s a good idea … the point that, like- 

[00:36:49] Stephen: I’ll tell you my first- Yeah, yeah, yeah

[00:36:50] Stephen: you know, my fir- my first three days in investment banking- Yeah, yeah … was I was shown to the desk and I was assigned to, uh, a top guy in the team whose name is James. And, [00:37:00] um, he has all the biggest clients And he’s very posh and very, you know, talks like this, very posh, very how do you do? Very good. And he’s very unimpressed that he’s been given, like, what they used to call the diversity hire.

[00:37:15] Stephen: So I came in, and as soon as you hear my a- The white 

[00:37:16] guy 

[00:37:17] Stephen: No, no, no. But the poor guy. The poor, yeah, the, the, the village kid. Oh. The, the village kid’s here. And so he’d hear my accent, and he was like, “Well, fucking hell.” And like, uh- I, I … He c- I could just tell, he was so like, “Ugh.” 

[00:37:29] Yeah. 

[00:37:30] Stephen: Um, ’cause all he wants is the next client.

[00:37:32] Stephen: Mm-hmm. So he’s like, “Who do you know? Who do you know? Who do you know?” 

[00:37:34] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:37:35] Stephen: He doesn’t need help executing the job ’cause he’s very competent. Mm. Mm. So I learned very quickly, like, oh, I’m not gonna last very long. Mm-hmm. This team, by the way, has a philosophy. It’s called up or out, which means your pay is either doubled or you’re fired.

[00:37:47] Brad: Oh, wow. Oh my God, I love that. 

[00:37:49] Stephen: Yeah. I 

[00:37:49] Brad: mean, 

[00:37:50] Stephen: I, I- And they do. It’s good … I 

[00:37:51] Aaron: mean, it’s intense. 

[00:37:51] Stephen: It’s very intense. 

[00:37:52] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:37:52] Stephen: And I, that’s every year. Phew. Just this one team in the bank is. You’re … It’s called up or out, and, um, they tell you that when you go in, ’cause [00:38:00] they’re like, “Look, every other team is normally you do three years, you get a promotion, three years, you get a promotion.

[00:38:03] Stephen: This team’s up or out, so just know, like, you’re either gonna… ‘Cause you make or break your career in this.” 

[00:38:09] Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:38:10] Stephen: Yeah. So when I got this guy, I was a bit intimidated, ’cause I was like, “Man,” like, “what do I do?” I … Also, by the way, I don’t know anything about banking. Mm-hmm. I did philosophy, politics, and economics.

[00:38:18] Stephen: I’m useless. Yeah. I’m useless. I don’t know anything. So I arrive on day one, and he takes me into a room. He’s like, “Okay, so, um, there’s a food retailer in the UK called Sainsbury’s.” It’s kinda like, you know, Walmart- Mm-hmm … that you have here. “Right. Um, we’re going to sell Sainsbury’s. Um, I need you to do a valuation.”

[00:38:36] Stephen: And he told me the number that it needed to come to, whatever number billion. “And we’re gonna meet the CEO, and I need a full pitch deck with all the comparables and, uh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and 100, 150 pages, and I need you to convince him to sell for this number. He doesn’t wanna sell.”

[00:38:53] Mm-hmm. “

[00:38:53] Stephen: So that’s the document. Make it Wednesday, 9:00 AM. I need it ready.” So I came out and I was like I [00:39:00] don’t know how to value a company 

[00:39:01] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:02] Stephen: I don’t know what a comparable is. I don’t know anything about Sainsbury’s. Wow. And what the fuck would I do? So I go around the team, Mr. Nice Guy, and I was like, “Hey, yo, I’ve got this deal, like, you know, can anybody help me?”

[00:39:12] Stephen: Nobody. Nobody even… I would talk to someone- Yeah … and they, they wouldn’t even acknowledge that I’m talking to them. Wow. So they’re typing on a computer, two headsets, six screens. I ask them a question, literally wouldn’t even look at me. 

[00:39:23] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:39:23] Stephen: Wow. 

[00:39:24] Aaron: It’s like- Is that because you were like the village boy? It’s because- Or is that 

[00:39:26] Stephen: just because they’re 

[00:39:27] Aaron: like, they’re like 

[00:39:27] Stephen: going for their deal?

[00:39:28] Stephen: This, the atmosphere of that team is very, yeah, they’re very in their own sh- thing. Mm-hmm. And it was a v- ultra-competitive team, and I’ve not yet proved that I’m worth talking to. 

[00:39:39] Brad: Okay. Mm. 

[00:39:39] Stephen: Which is fair enough, I guess. 

[00:39:40] Brad: Geez. You know what’s so crazy about that? Even in you telling the story, I’m feeling like I want to help younger Steven.

[00:39:47] Brad: I’m like, “I just wanna tell you what a comparable is.” 

[00:39:49] Stephen: Oh, dude, and I have no idea. You know? I have no idea what I’m doing, so I’m sh- myself. 

[00:39:52] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:39:53] Stephen: And so I go in, and then I’m like, you know, go… This is, I’m going on g- I’ve got this big paper book in how to value companies. Mm-hmm. Hundreds of pages. Mm-hmm.[00:40:00] 

[00:40:00] Stephen: Written by the guy who runs the bank, and it’s like… So I’m going through it, and it’s all, like, confusing, complex math. Like, I don’t really know what to do. I’m sitting on Excel. I’m trying to figure it out. Ugh, don’t know what to do. And then I’m going through all this. I’m learning what stuff is. I’m going all through the night.

[00:40:13] Stephen: It’s Monday night, you know, midnight, 1:00 AM, 2:00 AM, everyone’s still there. They work very long hours in this team. 3:00 AM, 4:00 AM, some people start going home. You know, 7:00 AM, they’re coming back in before markets open, and I’m still there tip-tapping away, and I’m like, “Fuck, I don’t w- ” I’ve got nothing.

[00:40:27] Stephen: I’m 24 hours in. I’ve got nothing. Mm. It’s Tuesday now. Fuck, I’ve got 24 hours, it’s Wednesday, of what the one we’re gonna do. Shit, I, I’m going around and starting to panic. I’m, like, calling people I’d met on the internship. “What do I do? What do I do?” Mm-hmm. I’m going and u- I’m piecing together these Excel things and then, like, micro passing out ’cause I’m so tired, and then looking at it.

[00:40:43] Stephen: I’m like, “This makes no sense. This is… Fuck, fuck, fuck.” Go through the night, now it’s late Tuesday night. I’ve, I’m piecing stuff together. I’m putting… But it’s crap. I’m looking on screen, this is crap. What am I doing? What am I doing? Go through the night, Tuesday, and it’s, like, 7:30 in the morning. I, I’m doing [00:41:00] everything I can to stay awake, and I’ve got nothing.

[00:41:03] Stephen: Mm. I’ve got nothing. 

[00:41:03] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:04] Stephen: I’ve got this bull- And this James guy, the, the man, walks in. 

[00:41:10] Aaron: The, the, the guy you have to convince to sell- The, the- … or your boss? 

[00:41:12] Stephen: No, no. My boss- Okay … who’s taking me at 9:00 AM- Yep … to go meet the CEO of Sainsbury’s. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s like 8:15, 8:30, whatever, he walks in. And he walks in, he just goes, “That room, print two copies.”

[00:41:22] Stephen: And I’m like, “This is it. I can’t believe it. I’m gonna be fired day three.” Mm-hmm. This is- 

[00:41:26] Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:26] Stephen: Uh, this is so bad. And I’ve already paid tax on the welcome bonus, so I can’t even afford to pay it back. Like, this is so bad. So pr- I’ve got, like, 20 pages out of this 150, 100. So I go in there, like, print it off.

[00:41:39] Stephen: I, like, give him a copy, and I sit there. He takes both copies, throws it in the trash. He goes, “Get used to it.” Stood up and walked out.

[00:41:49] Stephen: Yeah. 

[00:41:50] Aaron: Ugh. He didn’t look at it? 

[00:41:52] Stephen: There was no meeting 

[00:41:54] Aaron: Oh, wow. 

[00:41:55] Stephen: Yeah. So that was, that was my first… That sets the tone of [00:42:00] what that was like. 

[00:42:01] Aaron: Well, what, what, that was just to what? To get you freaked out? And 

[00:42:04] Stephen: what- It was to like, it’s sort of saying it, it- Ba- uh, banking is doing a lot of work that is not interesting, and most of it doesn’t go anywhere.

[00:42:14] Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:14] Stephen: No. You’re trying to pitch companies to buy another company or sell their company- Yeah … or do a major financial transaction. 

[00:42:21] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:22] Stephen: Issue a bunch of shares, buy a bunch of shares, something in the many, many billions, and then the bank takes a cut. They don’t really need to do it. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:42:29] Stephen: And, um, so it… And you gotta make these elaborate pitches. The helicopter story is, like, we make a pitch It’s just a pitch. But instead of making a pitch like this, what we do is we rent a helicopter- … we take the CEO, we go up in the helicopter. There’s a nice wooden box- 

[00:42:42] Brad: Yeah … 

[00:42:42] Stephen: made by Smithson of London, and it goes out in the leather box, and it’s all on, like, really nice thing.

[00:42:46] Stephen: And then when you look at the thing, it’s all bullshit, right? And, like- 

[00:42:49] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:42:50] Aaron: And the number’s, like, how much they wanna buy the… or they want the person to sell for. 

[00:42:53] Brad: Yep. 

[00:42:54] Stephen: Right. Yeah. And all of this math, ultimately, again, it’s like the most [00:43:00] bullshit. Yeah. It’s a man handling a man. Yeah. It’s a man talking to a man.

[00:43:02] Stephen: Mm-hmm. Just making a deal. 

[00:43:03] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:03] Stephen: The same that, like, I was doing in the streets as a kid. 

[00:43:05] Brad: Well, in the story, he’s like, “It needs to come out to this number.” 

[00:43:08] Stephen: Well, it always is that. 

[00:43:09] Brad: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:43:10] Stephen: If you- No, I know … if you’re gonna sell your company- Yeah. Yeah … now, it doesn’t matter what math I show you- Yeah

[00:43:13] Stephen: you have a number that you’d sell it for, you have a number that you wouldn’t. 

[00:43:15] Brad: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:15] Stephen: Now, my job is to, like, try and marry your wants with the market’s things and blah, blah, blah, and it… There’s a lot of fugazi to try and make that happen. Mm-hmm. But ultimately, the guy who wins is the guy who can, in life, is the guy who can communicate to people.

[00:43:29] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:30] Stephen: And I felt I had that more than the people in the bank. 

[00:43:33] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:33] Stephen: And I was… The reason I got analyst of the year was not ’cause I was oh so good at valuing companies, but I was very good at, like, watching someone 20 years my senior completely flounder ’cause they have no social skills, and then talking to a dude who’d often built that company- Mm

[00:43:48] Stephen: and so was far more like me than like this guy. This is some blue blood, daddy’s money. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Went to Eton, went to Oxbridge, and he’s talking to a self-made CEO. 

[00:43:56] Brad: And that’s the guy at… For as an example, that would be a guy with [00:44:00] 100 around him, the one supporting the 100. Correct. Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:02] Stephen: Yeah. 

[00:44:02] Brad: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:03] Stephen: You know, and, uh, and that guy is the guy. 

[00:44:07] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:08] Stephen: And I don’t… I’ve instantly realized, like, “Dude, guys, you’re embarrassing yourself. Like, this is… You think turning on this posh thing is m- giving you altitude, and it’s not.” 

[00:44:18] Brad: It’s 

[00:44:18] Stephen: just annoying him. Because guys like me and guys like him, I’m not saying we’re the same ’cause they’re very accomplished, but it isn’t like…

[00:44:23] Stephen: This dude’s from where I’m from. 

[00:44:25] Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:26] Stephen: And he is not impressed by this. 

[00:44:28] Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:28] Stephen: It… Like, you look pathe- Like, this is not it. And so very often, I’d give a very real comm of, like, you know, he’d make some pitch. I could just see that the guy’s… He’s not going for this. 

[00:44:37] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:38] Stephen: And I’d be like, “Yeah, but at the end of the day, dude, it’s all bullshit.

[00:44:39] Stephen: So, like, whatever number you want, like, we’ll just fucking make it work.” Yeah. “I’m the guy who’s gonna do it. So you say the number you want, and I’ll just make the math.” 

[00:44:44] Yeah. “

[00:44:45] Stephen: Oh, well, what can we do?” “Whatever you want me. You say the number, we’ll figure it out. Like, well, uh, don’t worry about it. What do you want?”

[00:44:52] Stephen: It… And that’s why I was liked, because- Yeah … and then they look good, and they come back to the office, and, “Oh, go…” [00:45:00] 

[00:45:00] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:45:00] Stephen: But I hated it. I hated that job. Yeah. Yeah. It was 20 hours a day, seven days a week, doing back solve maths about stuff I don’t give a fuck about. It didn’t help anyone. 

[00:45:08] Aaron: But were you actually, like, los- You were sleeping, like, three hours a day, four hours a day kinda deal?

[00:45:12] Aaron: Yeah. Every day. For how long? 

[00:45:13] Stephen: Uh, nearly two years. 

[00:45:14] Aaron: For r- But, like, can’t… Aren’t you gonna go insane? 

[00:45:17] Stephen: Hair started falling out, teeth were wobbling. Um, I was doing micro sleeps on the toilet roll of the toilet Um, I was ver- I, you know, v- very, very, very out of it. Very miserable So 

[00:45:29] Aaron: basically you made it. You’re rich now.

[00:45:32] Aaron: No, I’m just joking. 

[00:45:33] Stephen: No, I wasn’t. No, i- ironically, no, not really that rich. I mean- 

[00:45:36] Aaron: Really? 

[00:45:36] Stephen: No. I was getting, uh, my base salary was, like, three times what any of my mates got from uni. I think, like, 70 or 80 grand, and then the bonus probably 200, 300 grand. Back then. 

[00:45:47] Aaron: It was a while back. 

[00:45:48] Stephen: Yeah. And UK pounds. In pounds, yeah.

[00:45:50] Brad: 70, 80,000 pounds a year was your base salary? 

[00:45:53] Stephen: Yeah. 

[00:45:53] Brad: And that was three X what other guys were making out of university? 

[00:45:55] Stephen: Yeah, back then. I mean, this is 2011. The average, it was, like- That’s a lot … between [00:46:00] 20 and 30 grand. 

[00:46:00] Brad: Yeah. Holy cow. 

[00:46:02] Stephen: Whoa. Yeah. And I think I might have ended first year something like 200 to 40, something like that.

[00:46:06] Brad: Mm. 

[00:46:07] Stephen: I don’t even, I don’t remember, but- But you’re not in it for that. You’re in it because if you do the exponential graph, in 20 years I’m on maybe 30 million. 

[00:46:15] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:46:16] Stephen: And there’s guys who are still staying in that job. 

[00:46:18] Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:19] Stephen: And they… There’s one guy in particular, whose name is Luke, who, um, worked in my team.

[00:46:26] Stephen: And when I did quit to being a street artist, maybe we’ll transition to that because he sends- Yeah, let’s do it … me an email every time he gets a bonus with a picture of his bonus to like- Yeah. 

[00:46:36] Aaron: Yeah. To tell you that, to what, to come back or to just ’cause you’re 

[00:46:38] Stephen: doing well? No, no, no. Are you guys, are you guys buddies?

[00:46:39] Stephen: Are you guys buddies or does he just need you? Not a bu- no, we’re not buddies. Oh. Uh, no, he mocked me when I left. Oh. Because I went to play piano in the street, someone took a photograph of that, and he made a group email of everyone in that team like, “This is what happens when you leave the bank.” Yeah.

[00:46:52] Stephen: “You’re begging in the street.” 

[00:46:54] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:46:54] Stephen: Oh. And then he didn’t know I was still on the email thread, ’cause I’d not got kicked off the email yet, and I saw, like, [00:47:00] 300 people mocking me. And I was 

[00:47:02] Aaron: like- They’re like re- all replying and stuff, right? 

[00:47:04] Stephen: Yeah. But then, funny how life goes, like, before the end of that year I’d, I’d played in tens of countries, and I’d started getting booked to play for, like, a lot of big people.

[00:47:17] Stephen: Totally randomly how that happened. And I was with the, a very famous world leader, and I got paid more than he gets paid in a year for that one show. 

[00:47:29] Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:29] Stephen: And I sent him a selfie with the dude, and, uh, that was petty. Did it feel good? 

[00:47:38] That was a good one. 

[00:47:39] Stephen: It felt good at the time- Yeah … but then he now makes a point to send me an email- Send you the, his bill, yeah

[00:47:42] Stephen: every year of his check, and it’s now pretty astronomical. Um, and I fucking hope AI takes… No, I’m joking. No, 

[00:47:49] no.

[00:47:52] Stephen: Yeah. Um… 

[00:47:54] Oh, geez. 

[00:47:54] Stephen: Anyway, so, dude, I’m rambling so much, but- 

[00:47:57] Aaron: No, no, this is great. No, this is great. This is 

[00:47:58] Stephen: so good. Yeah. I hope you like long form [00:48:00] video, guys. So, so- Yeah, it is. Yeah … 

[00:48:01] Aaron: um, I wanna… See, the thing is I feel like I know some stories- Yeah … that I really wanna get into. You can just tell them. Because otherwise it’s gonna be gone.

[00:48:09] Aaron: But, like, dude, you starting to play on the street- 

[00:48:12] Stephen: Yeah … 

[00:48:12] Aaron: you didn’t think that was gonna make money, as far as I know. Not at all, yeah. You just, you just wanted to play. So, like, can we go into that? Like- 

[00:48:17] Stephen: Yeah … 

[00:48:17] Aaron: like, you- you’re starting to play. You have this, this, this spiritual thing going. I’m gonna tell 

[00:48:19] Stephen: you, can I give you the noble?

[00:48:20] Stephen: Yeah, dude, for real. I’ve, like, told this story so many times on stage all around the world, and, um, I’ll give you just the m- the realest it can get. I was so miserable. Mm-hmm. I was the lowest I’d been in my life, and yet people would tell me I’m successful. 

[00:48:38] Mm. 

[00:48:39] Stephen: And I was very concerned- This is just a personal thing.

[00:48:44] Stephen: My uncle was a violent schizophrenic. 

[00:48:46] Brad: Hmm. 

[00:48:47] Stephen: Except he really wasn’t. He was, he was a guy that was struggling to fit in, and he went to a psychiatrist- Mm-hmm … and the psychiatrist told him he was a violent schiz- schizophrenic. 

[00:48:56] Brad: Holy. 

[00:48:57] Stephen: Electroshocked him- Mm … for three weeks. 

[00:48:59] Brad: Oof. 

[00:48:59] Stephen: [00:49:00] Put him on anti-psychotic medication, and then he was weird, and then he killed himself.

[00:49:05] Stephen: Phew. My auntie, his sister, was upset about, he killed himself in a very brutal way. She was upset about that, couldn’t sleep. Goes to the doctor, ends up getting referred to the same doctor. No. That’s insane. Who said that she was clinically depressed. Electroshocked her, put her on some medication. She ended up killing herself in a very heinous way two weeks later.

[00:49:27] Stephen: Very, very heinous way. Two weeks? Two weeks after. 

[00:49:29] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah, it happened, happened to a friend of mine. Very close friend of mine, closest, like, gaming buddy. 

[00:49:34] Stephen: Yeah. 

[00:49:35] Aaron: Got into the place, electric shock. Two, three weeks, came out two weeks later, in the range. 

[00:49:41] Stephen: Now, my biggest- 

[00:49:42] Aaron: Like, uh, this, the electric shock thing is, is, uh- 

[00:49:44] Stephen: Yeah Wow

[00:49:44] Stephen: it happens. My grandfather was institutionalized at the end of his life. My granddad was, like, my hero. 

[00:49:49] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:49:50] Stephen: He was institutionalized at the end of my life, and I thought there’s nothing wrong with him. 

[00:49:53] Brad: Yep. 

[00:49:55] Stephen: He went crazy, but he only went cra- like, he got [00:50:00] institutionalized because he wet the bed. 

[00:50:01] Brad: No.

[00:50:02] Brad: What? 

[00:50:03] Stephen: He wet the bed in his house 

[00:50:04] Brad: As, as an older, 

[00:50:05] Stephen: older guy? He’s an older man. He was, he was in his 70s. 

[00:50:07] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:50:07] Stephen: He wet the bed and he was, you know, really upset about it. And I don’t know how this came to be ’cause I was a young kid, but he ends up getting institutionalized, and I went there and then he told me under his breath when we went to visit him that the nurses are poisoning him.

[00:50:20] Stephen: He’s like, “They’re trying to kill me.” Mm. And I told my mom and she was like, “Stephen, he’s not well. He’s not right.” But I actually think he might have been telling me the truth. 

[00:50:28] Aaron: Absolutely. 

[00:50:28] Stephen: The thing that really messed me up is a doctor at my school told me that that was hereditary. So I was very nervous that I might be crazy or I might go crazy.

[00:50:38] Brad: Oh, wow. Wow. 

[00:50:39] Stephen: And so every time I would have a low moment in life, I’d be like, “Oh my God, this is it. I’m gonna be like these guys.” So I now find myself in banking. A lot of things were coming crashing down. Everyone tells me I’m successful. Everyone tells me this should feel good. I was making more money than I could spend.

[00:50:53] Stephen: I had a penthouse, I had a, a Porsche, I had a gold-digging girlfriend who didn’t even like me. I had everything that society tells you makes you [00:51:00] successful. Yeah. I had a custom-made Prada suit. I had a lady who would come and, and bring me food so I didn’t have to … When you’re in this b- they’ll do anything to make you not get off the desk.

[00:51:08] Stephen: Yeah. They’ll shine your shoes when you’re there. You get a massage when you’re there. Anything but you don’t get off the desk. Um, so I looked like I’d made it, and I was crushing it in the job. 

[00:51:18] Mm. 

[00:51:19] Stephen: And, um, and I was deeply, deeply lost. Deeply, deeply unhappy. 

[00:51:26] Mm. 

[00:51:28] Stephen: Um, and very worried that I was losing my mind and that maybe this hereditary thing was kicking in.

[00:51:33] Wow. 

[00:51:34] Stephen: Maybe I’m depressed. Because what is wrong with me that this isn’t enough? What is wrong with me that this doesn’t make me happy? I don’t know anyone that has the life I’ve got. No … Like, the hundreds of thousands of people in, in Sheffield, that city next to my village, would cut off their arms for this.

[00:51:48] Yeah. 

[00:51:49] Stephen: My dad would have done anything for this job. 

[00:51:51] Wow. 

[00:51:53] Stephen: All these kids I went to school with, this is their dream. Everyone who went to university, all their money, this is it. I made it and I’m [00:52:00] miserable. What is wrong with me that this isn’t enough? ‘Cause if this is enough, then nothing’s enough, then what’s my future?

[00:52:04] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:52:09] Stephen: I, I hate to put things on my mum, uh, because mum has been through a lot. Um, but in this moment, 4:00 AM in the morning, perpetually not well slept, I called her up and I was, and I cried down the phone and I was like, “Mum, I’m, I’m, uh, I’m really not doing well.” I don’t know who I am, I don’t know where I’m going, I’m very miserable, and I keep having this thought that I wake up miserable, I spend all day doing something which makes me more miserable, and I go to bed.

[00:52:40] Stephen: I’m in no way, in no way suicidal, but it is just a mathematical equation that I would be better off if I didn’t wake up. I’m not gonna do anything, don’t get worried. I’m not… It’s just math. Mm-hmm. Like, if I wake up at minus 50 and I go to bed at minus 55, this keeps happening. 

[00:52:53] Aaron: Mm-hmm. One day. 

[00:52:54] Stephen: And I was really asking permission to quit the job.

[00:52:56] Stephen: Mm. ‘Cause she’d invested so much to get me there. Her whole life had been like, “You get out [00:53:00] there.” 

[00:53:00] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:53:01] Stephen: I was like, I, you know, “I don’t think I can do this.” And my mom said, “Steven, everyone’s miserable. You’re getting paid for it. Suck it up. Crack on.” 

[00:53:08] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:53:09] Stephen: And I was like, “Oh.” Hang up the phone. Now, ironically, my mom worked for £7,000 a year doing what she loved, helping people.

[00:53:17] But she does- 

[00:53:18] Stephen: Never thought about money. Didn’t care about money at all. Doesn’t care about fancy things. Yeah, 

[00:53:22] yeah, yeah. 

[00:53:22] Stephen: Doesn’t… Even now, like, “Well, Mom, what do you want?” Not, doesn’t care for anything. So it’s ironic that she would say that. 

[00:53:26] Aaron: Because it’s the, the, the big thing about mentors and about looking, and I think around, being around people is you see what they do, not what they say.

[00:53:34] Stephen: Yeah. Right. It’s true. 

[00:53:35] Aaron: See what they’re doing. 

[00:53:37] Stephen: Right. Mm-hmm. ‘

[00:53:37] Aaron: Cause she didn’t take that path. 

[00:53:39] Stephen: She didn’t. 

[00:53:39] Aaron: But she said take that path because it made sense also on paper, like the same reason you went to do in the first place. 

[00:53:44] Stephen: Right. Yeah. And, um, so, um, how I came to quit banking, I never tell that part of the story, but how I came to quit banking is I, I, I knew I had a golden resume.

[00:53:55] Stephen: Mm. I mean, the top bank, top thing, top this. I knew I was gonna get, like, top ranked [00:54:00] analyst that already had a really good ranking the year before. I have a golden resume. I have triple first class honors. Everything’s just, I can work wherever the I want on the planet. 

[00:54:07] Aaron: Mm-hmm, 

[00:54:07] Stephen: mm-hmm. And I’ve worked my whole life for this moment.

[00:54:10] Stephen: Yeah. And I’m like, right, I’m gonna go see what’s above this. So I’m gonna go interview at some private equity, some hedge funds, some venture capitals, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was distraught to realize something that this glamorous city called London, all those skyscrapers that look so cool from the outside are just filled with the same setup.

[00:54:32] Stephen: Sterile lighting, office desk, and spending your whole life doing something you don’t give a shit about. 

[00:54:37] Hmm. 

[00:54:38] Stephen: Oh, , they’re all the same thing. And I go and interview at these companies and I was like, wait, it’s basically a variant of the same. It’s a different sa- shade of the same shit Oh God, I don’t want any of this.

[00:54:50] Stephen: I don’t know what I want anymore. I don’t know what I want. Fuck. And this is success. I don’t want success shit. I thought I did want success. 

[00:54:56] Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:57] Stephen: I think I do want success. What is success? I don’t fucking … [00:55:00] But I can’t solve it sitting at my desk 20 hours a day s- you know, emails coming in from all over the world, double headset phone calls, and I don’t know what to do.

[00:55:09] Stephen: With no plan, I mean, no plan, I stood up, I walked to the head of the bank’s, um, desk, Oswald Grubel. He was the CEO at the time. And, uh, I’d never talked to him. Nobody talks to him. Mm-hmm. He’s God. For some reason in this, like, out of body moment, I go up to him, I, like, introduce myself. I’m like, “Can I have a word with you?”

[00:55:33] Stephen: And then I go and we walk in this, like, a glass office. Uh, uh, everyone’s looking at us going to the office. Like, everyone’s like, “What the fuck?” And I, I go in this office and I was like, “Look, I, um- I’m gonna leave. I can’t do this anymore. I, s- I’m so grateful for the opportunity. This might be the worst mistake of my life.

[00:55:52] Stephen: I gotta go. And he’s like, “Okay, I get it. All right. Uh, Sharon, um, yeah, can you just, um, bring him over the, yeah, yeah. Can you just bring that in? Thank you.” [00:56:00] I go, “I got it. No problem.” Sits there quietly. 

[00:56:03] Aaron: Bring wh- what did he ask for? 

[00:56:04] Stephen: Well, it comes in- Okay … two minutes later, a contract comes in. He turns it around and he’s like, “Just fill it in.”

[00:56:10] Stephen: And it was a blank contract- … with the numbers blank. And he thought, I’m trying to make a power play. You just got Analyst of the Year. Okay, now you wanna go to this other bank. They’ve offered you more money. How much do you want? 

[00:56:22] Aaron: Oh. 

[00:56:23] Stephen: Me being the math guy I am, I was instantly like, this is the biggest trap in the world.

[00:56:29] Stephen: Ah. In fact, the bigger the number I write, the bigger the trap. Because what’s gonna happen here is I’m gonna write, let’s say I write 10 million. 

[00:56:34] Aaron: Yep. 

[00:56:35] Stephen: Good. I’m gonna get taxed half of it. It’s gonna go. And the terms of this contract is if you leave, you’ve gotta give it back. Well, I don’t have it. Mm. And this is only year one, and you’re gonna control it so that I can never give that money back and then it’s a golden handcuff.

[00:56:47] Aaron: That’s a real golden handcuff. I’ve heard of golden handcuffs like, hey, a guy’s making 400 grand. He’s not gonna 

[00:56:52] Stephen: leave. I, I, maybe I could’ve got 10 million. ‘

[00:56:53] Aaron: Cause that’s, no, but I mean, but, but no- 

[00:56:54] Stephen: No, I wouldn’t- … 

[00:56:54] Aaron: that way it’s like, 

[00:56:55] Stephen: oh- Yeah, I wouldn’t have got 10 million. Yeah. Yeah. It maybe, uh, I don’t know, two maybe I could’ve written.

[00:56:58] Aaron: Yeah, 

[00:56:59] Stephen: yeah. I could’ve written [00:57:00] something a little audacious at that point. And I was like, “No, no, no. I, um, I’m not… There’s no play here.” 

[00:57:06] Mm. 

[00:57:07] Stephen: He’s like, “Well, what, what are you gonna do?” I was like, “You know, I don’t, I, I don’t know. I was thinking like maybe fashion or, um… I was thinking about backpacking, you know.

[00:57:19] Stephen: I used to be really happy when I did that or…” And he was like looking at me like- “… what are you talking about?” And- 

[00:57:27] It’s a joke. There’s a hidden camera 

[00:57:29] Stephen: somewhere. Right. And- And he’s like looking at me. This guy’s never met me. Yeah. And is far too busy to give a sh-about what the junior of juniors- 

[00:57:36] Yeah, yeah

[00:57:36] Stephen: and he was like, “Okay.” Called in, got another contract which is called garden leave, and it’s a contract you sign and they’re gonna give you three months salary to not work in another bank for two years- 

[00:57:46] Hm … 

[00:57:46] Stephen: so that you can’t take the data. I was like, “I don’t, I don’t need that. I’m, I’m just quitting.” He was like, “Fine.

[00:57:53] Stephen: Just quit and just sign that.” And I was like, “I mean, I’ll take free money. Okay, I’ll sign it.” As soon as I signed it, he like took the [00:58:00] paper and he’s like, “I’ve just never seen anybody destroy their life. Interesting.” So- So I walked out. Wow. And he had so much altitude to me, I was like, what the have I done?

[00:58:09] Stephen: And then- Wow … sh-, what have I done? And then security comes. You’re not allowed to even go back to your desk. You’re not allowed to talk to anyone ’cause you could take any information, and they escort you immediately out the bank. 

[00:58:18] Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:19] Stephen: Wow. So I’ve gone from 20 hours a day sleeping on my BlackBerry so that when it vibrates I wake up, to bye bye BlackBerry, bye bye security pass, out the front door.

[00:58:28] Stephen: Thursday, 11 o’clock in the morning, uh, and half the fucking team runs outside. “Oh my God, what happened? What happened? What happened?” I’m like, “Uh, I quit.” And they’re like, “What? No one quits this team. This team is like the lottery. You won the lottery.” Wow. “Nobody quits this team. What are you talking about?

[00:58:47] Stephen: Where you gonna go? Where you gonna go? Oh my God, are you go- are you BlackRock? Are you going here? Are you…” I was like, “Um, no, I don’t, I don’t really know.” And I thought, “Right, I, I might, I think I might have lost my mind. I think this is it.” I think I’ve [00:59:00] actually… I think I’ve lost my mind. Like, if there was a ti- if this is cra- ♪ Does that make me crazy? ♪ Yeah.

[00:59:07] Stephen: Like, possibly. 

[00:59:08] Yeah. 

[00:59:09] Stephen: And, uh, I walk and I’m in shock, total shock. What the fuck? And but you know what’s amazing? I’m looking, there’s a dude who was painting a wall. I’d walked to work that morning and didn’t see anything. I don’t remember walking to work. Wow. I was just miserable. Mm. I look out and I see this guy painting a wall.

[00:59:30] Stephen: I was like, “Wow, oh, that looks so good. I’d love to paint. I love painting. Maybe I could paint a wall.” And then I look, like, down and there’s a dude driving a ca- a, a taxi, and I was like, “I love driving. I love talking to people. I could be a taxi driver.” And then I, like, look across the road, there’s, like, a barber shop that I used to go to, and I’m like, “I love being around the guys and, like, getting a hair…”

[00:59:50] Stephen: I was like, “I could, I could work in a barber shop.” I was like… Everything looked interesting to me. 

[00:59:54] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:59:54] Stephen: It was weird. Wow. It was like everything looked interesting, and I walk around in this [01:00:00] daze and, um, and I saw a piano in a thrift shop, uh, you know, this old secondhand vintage store on Brick Lane. I was like, “That’s what I need.”

[01:00:12] Stephen: And I went in this thrift shop, and I sat down on the piano, started playing. This big dude who smelled of stale alcohol comes up to me, “If you wanna play the piano, you gotta buy it.” “Okay, how much is it?” “100 pounds.” I was like, “I’ll buy it.” I buy this piano, and he was like, “Good, you gotta take it.” This massive piano.

[01:00:27] Stephen: I’m like, “What the fuck?” So him and some dude in the shop helps me. We, like, drag it outside the front of the shop. It’s just out- outside the front of the doorway. I was like, “I’ll just play it here for a bit, and I’ll give it him back or whatever.” I sit down and start playing, and, um, man, I really needed that.

[01:00:47] Stephen: And I play, and it’s just instantly, instantly freedom. Instantly. Wow. Like, all of that noise gone. It’s always been that way. And I’m there, and I’m playing my song, and I’m just… Who knows how much [01:01:00] time’s gone by. It’s just paradise. And, um, and then all of a sudden, I get this very, very sudden, like, wait a minute.

[01:01:14] Stephen: There’s a sixth sense which I picked up coming from where I come from, someone’s looking at me. Women probably have this more than men, but like, uh I feel there’s someone behind me, and then I’m very aware, I’m like, “Wait a minute. I’m sitting here in the Prada suit, the Hermes tie, the Rolex. I’m gonna get robbed.

[01:01:31] Stephen: This is so stupid. What the am I doing?” 

[01:01:33] Mm. “

[01:01:34] Stephen: Oh my God, this is dumb.” And I … I’m like, “Well, he’s not robbed me yet. This is why I’m playing this song. He’s not robbed me yet.” 

[01:01:42] Brad: He must like the song. 

[01:01:43] Stephen: Yeah, he must be waiting till I finish. And then I was like, “Well, I know what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna…” And I did this move which I’ve been doing the, my entire career now, which is I went really, really, really quickly with the piano, punched the bottom of the piano to be scary, turned around to confront the guy.[01:02:00] 

[01:02:00] Stephen: I turn around, and there’s, like, 600 people in silence with a phone

[01:02:10] Stephen: Could hear a pin drop. Nobody clapped. And I’m there

[01:02:19] Stephen: It’s like they knew what’s going on in my life in that moment. It, it’s, I, I feel like everybody knew. Oh. I didn’t know what to say, didn’t know what to do. I’ve never I was so shy on piano, I’d wait for my mom to leave home before I’d practice. 

[01:02:31] Hmm. Wow. 

[01:02:33] Stephen: I would never play in front of people. I hated the way I looked my whole life.

[01:02:37] Stephen: I hated the way I sounded. I hated my music. I really didn’t like myself. And this was, I’d never

[01:02:47] Stephen: I felt acknowledged 

[01:02:48] Mm. 

[01:02:50] Stephen: And I also felt like this is the first time I’ve done anything in my life that was worth 600 people stopping. Nobody stopped for me in the bank. Wow. For all the fake you’ve made it and success, [01:03:00] I did nothing for anybody. Something felt so… And I don’t know how to handle it, and I burst out crying, and then everybody starts clapping, and they’re coming up to me, and they’re hugging me.

[01:03:09] Stephen: They’re telling me, like, very personal stories. 

[01:03:11] Wow. 

[01:03:12] Stephen: And I’m crying. They’re crying. I don’t know what to do. I jokingly threw my hat on the floor, piled up with money at the top. And I’m looking at him like, “What the fuck?”

[01:03:26] Stephen: And it took like an hour for everybody to leave. They’re all telling me this stuff like, “Give me the phone numbers,” and this, “Oh, you gotta do that. I’ve got… I know this guy. You’re gonna…” And they think I’m an artist. They’re like, they think I do. I’m like I’m– And they’re treating me like I’m a musician. I’m not a musician, I’m just a fucking guy.

[01:03:43] Stephen: And, um, I took this hat when they all left. I walked across the street to a pub called The Bricklayer’s Arms. I wrote a song called Eight Steps to The Bricklayer’s Arms about this. Right. I had £16.34 and a krona. Best money I ever made in my life. I realized in [01:04:00] banking there’s a price- What’s a krona? Uh, it- it’s some foreign currency.

[01:04:02] Brad: Oh, okay, okay. 

[01:04:03] Stephen: Yeah, someone will Google it and make me wrong if I say what. 

[01:04:06] Aaron: Maybe Danish. Danish. 

[01:04:06] Stephen: I don’t know. Yeah. But yeah. I just remember it as a krona. And, um, I realized that money had a price, and the price I’d been paying for money before was everything. Mm-hmm. My life, my passion, my happiness, everything.

[01:04:16] Stephen: And this money was free. I don’t know why I’ve got this. I shouldn’t have this money. I feel guilty about getting this money. Mm-hmm. Why have I got it? I don’t know what… This is free money

[01:04:27] Stephen: And I went out and I, okay, I threw all the money in the bottom of the piano. Put the hat on the floor, did it again. Wait, what? I’m running the math. What, five minutes, 16 pounds. Multiply that, hourly salary, blah, blah, blah. Banker mode. And I was like, I got this idea of I’m gonna do something extraordinary. I was still thinking with resume building and all that shit, ’cause I thought, “I’m gonna go get a real job one day.”

[01:04:57] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:58] Stephen: But, but I’ve never d- I’ve [01:05:00] never had any fun in my life. Never had any fun. 

[01:05:02] Aaron: Wow. ‘

[01:05:03] Stephen: Cause I always had this thing, oh, you’ve gotta go build a resume, you gotta go build a re- all the kids go and do that fu- you can’t be in that. You’re not in rugby team, you’re not in this, you’re not in band, you’re not in the…

[01:05:11] Stephen: No, bro, y- it’s chess, it’s Latin, it’s build a company, it’s it. I never had any fun. I was like, “Fuck it, I’m gonna have some fun, but I’ll make it good for the resume.” And I was like, “I’m gonna do 12 jobs, one month each, super interesting jobs. This is an interesting story.” Mm-hmm. “This’ll be good for my interview at BlackRock one day.

[01:05:26] Stephen: Fuck it, let’s see what I can do.” 

[01:05:28] Aaron: I just- This was gonna be your first of 12. 

[01:05:29] Stephen: Right. And I needed to do that to give myself permission to just do what I wanted to do. 

[01:05:33] Aaron: Mm. 

[01:05:35] Stephen: And I played all night long. I can’t tell you how tired I was after two years of banking. Yeah. I am fucking exhausted. Played through to 1:00 AM.

[01:05:43] Stephen: You 

[01:05:43] Aaron: hadn’t gone to bed yet? 

[01:05:44] Stephen: No. It’s 11:00 in the morning. Well, maybe it’s 11:30 when I started doing it. I played till, like, 1:00 in the morning. I wake up naturally at 5:00 AM, and all I can think about is the police are gonna take the piano. Sh- and I bolt to the piano. 

[01:05:55] Aaron: Mm. 

[01:05:55] Stephen: It’s still there. Thank God. It, there’s a noise law in the UK.

[01:05:59] Stephen: I’m like, “Well, I can’t play yet, [01:06:00] everyone’s asleep.” So I’m like waiting, waiting. When can you play? Well, 8:00 AM you can play it. 8:00 AM, boom, start playing. Played, 1:00 AM, gotta go bed. Wake up, 5:00 AM, n- no alarm, just boom, I’ve gotta get to the piano. 

[01:06:11] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:06:12] Stephen: That’s how I became a musician. And, uh, for five minutes at a time, I am Mick Jagger.

[01:06:17] Stephen: To those 500 people that stop, I am Mick fucking Jagger, and it’s never, nothing’s felt better in my life. Nothing has felt… I never counted the money after that first time. I never… If I’m thirsty, I put my hand in the box, I get a can of Coke. I gave it away. It was nothing to me. I went from being so focused on money to it meant nothing to me.

[01:06:35] Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:36] Stephen: Threw it away. You meet a lot of characters playing in the street. Homeless people who pretend to be giving you money, but they’re actually taking the money. Give them money. Give, I j- out, it was nothing to me. Because what I was doing was j- I felt like Gandhi. I felt like I found something here where I’m in some higher state.

[01:06:53] Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:55] Stephen: And that’s how I got into music. 

[01:06:56] Brad: So, uh, something I actually have no earthly idea of [01:07:00] the question to, legitimately, ’cause I don’t think I’ve ever asked you, is, uh- How did you find Scientology? 

[01:07:08] Stephen: Oh, Scientology. How I found Scientology is… Well, that’s quite a few years later. 

[01:07:14] Brad: Oh, it is? 

[01:07:15] Stephen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I- You know, it’s interesting, I used to debate competitively at university, and I came second in the debating competition debating that there is no God.

[01:07:26] Stephen: Very atheistic. 

[01:07:27] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:07:28] Stephen: It had an interesting, like, tussle- 

[01:07:30] Aaron: Well, wait, wait, wait. Just stop, pause for a sec on that because were you, did you choose that side at that time, or was it assigned to 

[01:07:36] Stephen: you? No, it was assigned to me. 

[01:07:37] Aaron: So, so you had to debate against 

[01:07:39] Stephen: it whether you believed it or 

[01:07:39] Aaron: not. You have to debate 

[01:07:40] Stephen: what you’re given.

[01:07:40] Stephen: Yeah. I didn’t even pick the subject as religion. Okay. It’s just in this debate, and they give you the very, like, routine co- you know, abortion. 

[01:07:46] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:47] Stephen: It’s the usual things that everybody debates. 

[01:07:49] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:49] Stephen: And, um, it makes for an easy debate, and then they give you one side, and whether or not you agree with it, you debate it.

[01:07:53] Stephen: Okay. 

[01:07:53] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:07:55] Stephen: There’s 32 rounds to get to the final. I got to the final, so I debated 31 religious people, at least people pretending [01:08:00] to be religious at least, and I’d won. Mm. And by the end, I’d become thoroughly convinced- Mm-hmm … that I am not religious. 

[01:08:06] Mm. Yeah. 

[01:08:08] Stephen: And that had an interesting thing because, look, my dad died.

[01:08:13] Stephen: I didn’t see the gates of heaven open up. I didn’t see the angels, and it– My mom was very Christian, and I felt I could never… You know, I was going to church. I went church every week. I went to a school where you sing hymns every morning. It was just assumed that you’re Christian. Mm. I thought I was Christian for most of my life.

[01:08:27] Stephen: I, I prayed. Didn’t always feel anyone was listening. Usually felt better for it. I felt I was better to be godly than ungodly. Mm. And, you know? But truthfully, I’d never looked at it for myself. I knew I was definitely not what the Bible says you should be as a Christian. I definitely had sin, you know? Um, and then I’d gone to India as a kid, and I saw, I saw another group of people that just assume that you’re Hindu.

[01:08:56] Mm-hmm. 

[01:08:57] Stephen: Just as much as my culture assumes I’m Christian, they assume I’m [01:09:00] Hindu. 

[01:09:00] Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:00] Stephen: They just assume I know that you live multiple times and that you reincarnate, and they just assume these… And as a kid, you kind of just go along, and you, “Yeah, okay.” But I’m like, “Well, I don’t know if I believe that either.”

[01:09:12] Stephen: And I, I’m– But I kind of like bits of both, and, um- … well, what is true, and what is God, and what is religion, and what is… I know they’re big questions. And the only time I’d ever looked at that for myself was when I was told, “Argue for atheism.” 

[01:09:26] Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:27] Stephen: All right. Uh, you know, I’d read bits of the Quran. I’d read bits of the Torah.

[01:09:31] Stephen: I’d read Jainism, Sikhism, Shinto. I’d read Pars. I’d read, uh, ’cause we were debating these different things. 

[01:09:38] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:09:41] Stephen: Never debated a Scientologist. Never knew anything about Scientology really. Um, but it’s quite a funny story. I, I, um, my dad was a Freemason, which is very secretive. I still don’t know what he did.

[01:09:55] Stephen: He never told me. 

[01:09:56] Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:56] Stephen: It’s always mystical to me. He, like, goes to these, like, Freemason meetings, his local little [01:10:00] thing, and I think he got a kick out of the fact that he couldn’t tell me about it. You know, “I can’t tell you about it. I’d have to kill you,” and all this stuff. And I sort of thought Scientology was similar.

[01:10:08] Stephen: I just thought it was some secret kind of thing. And how this came about was there was a girl who asked me for help to fix a piano. And, um, weirdly, whilst playing the song I was having another ki- I’ve had many midlife crises, but I was having a bit of a midlife crisis. Like, “Oh, what am I doing? I don’t really know where I’m go- And I had this bright idea that I’d like to live just helping people for a month.

[01:10:34] Stephen: You’ll see that I, I, I come up with, like, projects for months and, and I had this project of I’d like the idea of helping people ’cause I’m really tired of myself. I live in this selfish cage called me. My worries, my problems, my success, my… And I’ve really grown tired of it because that guy cannot be satisfied.

[01:10:49] Stephen: And by this time I’ve traveled around the world, 70 plus countries. I’ve met, I’ve met my heroes. I’ve met people I never thought I’d meet. I’ve, I’ve partied with them. I’ve, [01:11:00] I’ve, uh, you know, had more female attention than a guy with my face should get. Don’t know how to handle it. I’ve been very unethical but didn’t know how to handle it.

[01:11:10] Stephen: I’d fucked up. I’d lied. I’d screw people over. I’d been irresponsible. I was just being a rock star ’cause that’s what rock stars do. 

[01:11:19] Aaron: And this is how long into starting the… How long after this, uh- 

[01:11:22] Stephen: It’s probably two years- … demo? … into being a musician. 

[01:11:24] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ‘

[01:11:25] Stephen: Cause everything comes easy in the beginning.

[01:11:29] Stephen: I mean, it comes easy. Everything comes easy, full so- I don’t like this idea that life has to be hard. It doesn’t. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I was playing to over 100,000 people a day in the street from day one. That’s five Madison Square Gardens. Justin Bieber doesn’t do five Madison Square Gardens in one day. 

[01:11:41] Mm-hmm.

[01:11:41] Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:41] Stephen: That’s a lot of people. So guess what comes. You get a lot of people offering opportunities, but you get a lot of bullshit. 

[01:11:46] Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:46] Stephen: And you get a lot of guys that come like, “Oh, I’m having a party tonight,” and they want it… You’re a little play thing. You’re the entertainment. You’re the help. And, “Yeah.

[01:11:52] Stephen: So what about that? Smell that. Sniff that. Oh, come over here. This girl, that girl.” But… And I don’t know how to judge [01:12:00] people yet. 

[01:12:00] Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:00] Stephen: Mm-hmm. Who’s a good person? Who’s a bad person? I, I’m a kid from the village, and I thought I was street smart, but I’ve only ever dealt with one profile of per- I was out of my depth.

[01:12:11] Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:12:12] Stephen: I, I didn’t have a moral foundation. I kinda did, but when tested, I’d made a mistake and then I don’t know what to do and I’m a bit lost. Mm-hmm. And oh, oh, had a one-night stand and I’m like, “Fuck, I, that’s kinda something I never thought I’d do.” And then I, you know, did a lot of shit. And, um, that’s not…

[01:12:30] Stephen: I made a contract with myself about the kind of person I was gonna be when I was a kid, and I’m not being that. 

[01:12:34] Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:35] Stephen: And this isn’t going well And I don’t know what to do. And I’d made this decision, “Fuck, just fuck that guy. Fuck Steven. I’m just gonna live to help other people.” Randomly, a chick comes up to me and is like, “Oh, can you help me fix a piano?”

[01:12:45] Stephen: Literally like a few minutes later. And that piano- 

[01:12:48] Brad: That’s crazy … 

[01:12:49] Stephen: was in a Church of Scientology. Stop. 

[01:12:51] Brad: No. Stop. 

[01:12:53] Stephen: Yeah. So I go in this Church of Scientology, right? I don’t know, in the beginning I’m like just kinda not really in present time. [01:13:00] I’m just walking in. 

[01:13:00] Brad: Did you even notice? You’re like, “Oh, in 

[01:13:02] Stephen: the-” No, not really.

[01:13:02] Stephen: Like I was- Yeah … I was talking to her, not really paying attention, a bit hungover. Go in and I’m like, “Yeah, I don’t even know how to fix a piano.” I’m like, “Oh, what have I done?” Two amazing things, by the way, happened in that moment. One, I was playing piano in the street at the time. 

[01:13:15] Uh-huh. 

[01:13:16] Stephen: And I had a money box.

[01:13:20] Stephen: She asked me for help and I was like, “Okay.” And I left the piano in the street, I took the money box, and I gave it to this lady, um, Kristen, and- 

[01:13:29] Aaron: The lady who asked you to fix the piano? 

[01:13:30] Stephen: No. 

[01:13:31] Aaron: Oh. 

[01:13:31] Stephen: Kristen was a homeless lady with no teeth- 

[01:13:33] Aaron: Oh … 

[01:13:33] Stephen: who was on heroin. 

[01:13:36] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:13:37] Stephen: And she would get really high, and then she would cry, cry a pain that you’ve not heard- 

[01:13:43] Mm

[01:13:44] Stephen: about that the government’s taken her baby. And then she has no money, and she needs to get money to get my baby, and then she would go and offer BJs for £5. And I would see her go down the street with these dudes, these gross fucking dudes. Mm. [01:14:00] She does what she does, but then she spends the money on drugs.

[01:14:02] Stephen: And she’s in this loop, and I’ve seen this woman for weeks. And then she’d come and pretend she’s giving me money in my box and steal money. And, um, she was there in the audience waiting to steal money from me at the end, and I gave her the box of coins So two cool things happened in this moment. First of all, I did that.

[01:14:22] Stephen: You know, I have … That was just, I decided I’m gonna help people. There you go. Boom. 

[01:14:26] Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:28] Stephen: One year later, I get called into an office by a woman who was sitting on the other side of the street in a coffee shop, a British coffee shop called Costa, and uh, she was like, “Were you the guy that gave all your money away that day?”

[01:14:40] Stephen: “Yeah.” “I’ve been trying to hunt you down, and I just wanted to ask you, like, why did you do that?” I was like, “Well, you know, it’s funny.” I was like, “I was just so fucking sick of myself and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I just decided, like, fuck, I’m just gonna help people.” And, uh, in honesty, like, that was a big turning point in my life and, and we have this really deep chat and I, and I told her my story.

[01:14:56] Stephen: You know, I used to be in banking. I was a very selfish guy and I’m [01:15:00] kind of just be- I, I think I’m evolving to be … You know, I’m not saying I’m not still got selfish desires, but I’ve tended to find, like, the more, the more I connect, the more I’m in brotherhood with the people around me, the bigger I feel and the bigger I am because instead of this two-by-two box- Mm-hmm

[01:15:15] Stephen: I, there’s a whole universe out there. Blah, blah, blah. I’m talking about this thing. “All right. How much did you, um, how much did you give her?” Now, I did know that. 

[01:15:25] You did? 

[01:15:25] Stephen: Yeah. 

[01:15:25] Okay. 

[01:15:26] Stephen: And, um, ’cause I was competing with myself at that point. Like, how much can I get for one song? And I was like, “I gave her about £400.”

[01:15:32] Stephen: She’s like, “Okay. Well, I wrote this the day that I saw you do that,” and it was a napkin, and she sh- gives me the napkin, and the napkin just said “100X”. And she’s like, “I’m gonna make an a-” Sh- she turns out she’s the ad executive for Coca-Cola. “I’m gonna make an ad called Random Acts of Kindness inspired by what you did, and I’d like to pay you as a creative director 100X whatever you gave that woman.”

[01:15:54] Stephen: She gave me $40,000, pounds, 40,000 pounds. Like that. And they made an ad called Random Acts of Kindness. [01:16:00] What? Totally go write that. 

[01:16:01] Yeah. 

[01:16:02] Stephen: Um, so that was one thing. The second thing is I’m helping this chick fix a piano in a fucking church Scientology. Same day? I mean, it was a year later that it- Okay, okay.

[01:16:08] Stephen: No, no, no, no. No, no, it was the same day that it happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same one minute, bro. So you gave 

[01:16:10] Aaron: the box thing and then the lady goes- 

[01:16:11] Stephen: Gave the box- Oh, I see. Same minute. Yeah, same minute. I gave the box so that I could go with this girl to help her fix the piano. Oh, wow! ‘Cause I can’t carry all the coins.

[01:16:17] Stephen: They weigh a lot. So I just gave away the money and then wa- walked off with this girl, left the piano there, left everything, and then walk. And now we’re in a church Scientology. I didn’t realize initially, I’m, like, in there, and the building was kinda, like, really fancy, and I thought it was her house. So I’m in there, like, fixing this thing, and this dude comes up, dressed all nice in a suit.

[01:16:38] Stephen: Uh, “Oh, you know, sir, can I get you a glass of water?” And I was like, “This bitch has got a butler.” I’m like, “The fuck am I doing here? Fucking helping people. What a fucking idiot. Oh my God, I’m such an idiot.” Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That’s exactly what I was thinking. And I get so pissed off, and I’m like, “Well, fuck.”

[01:16:55] Stephen: I’m British, so I can’t really express it, so I’m like, “I’m just gonna quietly do this job, and then I’m not gonna talk to you [01:17:00] again.” And I’m, like, doing it, and then some other woman comes up, “Oh, can I get you a drink?” I’m like, “This bitch got two. That’s it.” Like, I’m off it. I s- I stand up, and I, I go to this, I go to the woman.

[01:17:09] Stephen: Right. And I’m like, “Listen, I, I’m, I’m out.” And, um- Oh, no, no, no. What do you do? I asked her what she did for a living after the first guy came. She said she’s an opera singer, and I was like, “Opera, it must be nice.” I was like, “Really? Opera singer.” And, um, then second person comes and then I said, “Listen, I’m out.”

[01:17:30] Stephen: All right. We’re walking– I’m walking to the door, and there’s a massive poster by the door, and it’s a picture of a kid on a skateboard, and it says, “I’m a Scientologist.” I thought, “That’s a weird fucking poster.” And, uh, and I looked at her. I was like, “Where are we?” She said, “We’re in a Church of Scientology.”

[01:17:49] Stephen: And the hairs on my neck went up, and I was like, “Oh, shit. I’ve, like, managed to make it into this secret society.” 

[01:17:59] And I was like- What the [01:18:00] fuck are you saying? 

[01:18:02] Stephen: Well, and I was like, “Holy fuck. I somehow made it in.” And I thought this would be a great story one day. 

[01:18:07] Brad: Yeah. On the resume. ‘

[01:18:08] Stephen: Cause I got– I do– I got wild stories, all the people I’ve met.

[01:18:10] Stephen: I’d never met a Scientologist. This is pretty fucking cool. I thought, “While I’m in here, let me, like, try and figure out what I can figure out.” But it turns out they’re not secretive at all. Quite the opposite. Like, like- … they have a, um, most of these churches have an information library. Anybody can go in and, and, and read anything, right?

[01:18:26] Stephen: I didn’t know that. So I’m like, “Can I ask you some questions?” She said, “All right.” I said, “All right, but one thing, you gotta under- like, we’re British. You gotta agree not to be offended. I used to debate religious people.” 

[01:18:39] Mm. 

[01:18:39] Stephen: Yeah. “I’ve never actually met a Scientologist, and I’d like to, like, ask you some questions, but I, I– they’re gonna be hard questions.

[01:18:49] Stephen: They’re not gonna be polite questions.” 

[01:18:50] Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:51] Stephen: She, “Yeah, yeah.” She was Israeli. She didn’t give a fuck. Mm-hmm. She was like, “I don’t give a…” And, uh, okay. And I ask her, like, all these questions, and her answers, like, [01:19:00] threw me off. I was like, “All right, who do you pray to? You pray to some dude called Ron from the ’50s?”

[01:19:04] Stephen: She said, “No, n- I don’t, I don’t pray.” “What do you mean you don’t pray? What do you believe?” “I believe man’s good and that you can improve life, and…” I’m like, “Yeah, no, I believe that, but, like, what do you believe? Like, what…” And all her answers, like, threw me off. And she was like: “Look, I, be really honest, if you’re that interested in it, just, you can read it.”

[01:19:24] Stephen: And I was like, “She’s gonna let me read it.” I was like- “She’s letting me in. I’m getting in.” Like, I’m, you know, this is so wild. And I go in, and I was like, “Yeah, but which bit can I read? Like, the secret stuff or like what…” You know. She’s like, “Yeah, yeah, you can read whatever you want.” And I’m like- And she takes me to the public information library-

[01:19:44] Stephen: which anybody could go in, but I didn’t know that, and there’s all these book titles. And there was one book title, um, called How to Overcome Emotional Ups and Downs. 

[01:19:57] Mm-hmm. 

[01:19:59] Stephen: And [01:20:00] it’s like, it, it made me feel embarrassed. It made me go flush. Like oof. It was just so on the bone for me. ‘Cause that was my life.

[01:20:10] Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:10] Stephen: My life has been ups and downs. It’s been the highest highs, the lowest lows. And I would hide the lowest lows ’cause it’s so shameful. But I’ve- Mm-hmm … very, you know, I was worried I was going insane many times in my life. And being a musician, I mean, we’ve skipped so much of that story, but I found myself in bizarre rooms with like a royal throwing up on me at 2:00 AM after a party.

[01:20:32] Stephen: And then the next day I’m playing in a hospice for a bunch of kids. And the next day I’m like in an ashram in India playing this show. And the next day I’m with the prince of wherever and, and we’re on a super yacht- Mm-hmm … and we’re play- 

[01:20:42] Yeah. 

[01:20:43] Stephen: And, uh, whilst still feeling like I don’t, I’m not really a musician.

[01:20:47] Stephen: You guys treat me like I’m an artist. I’m just a kid from the village who somehow- Mm … you think I’m an artist. I feel like I’m sc- I feel like I’m conning you. 

[01:20:54] Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:54] Stephen: I feel like I’m like some scam thing. 

[01:20:56] Mm. Yeah. 

[01:20:57] Stephen: I’m just a dude that loves music. I’m not a musician. Like, [01:21:00] I’m not fucking Sting. Sting’s one of the guys I met many times.

[01:21:04] Stephen: That’s a whole fucking story. And, uh, love that man. That guy is like … That guy’s an incredible man. So I see this book, How to Overcome Ups and Downs, and I’m like, I’ve just never seen a book with that title before. 

[01:21:20] Mm-hmm, 

[01:21:21] Stephen: mm-hmm. And, uh, but honestly, like I have no interest in becoming fucking religious or

[01:21:26] Stephen: That is not in the cards for me. 

[01:21:28] Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:32] Stephen: But in the spirit of I might never get invited back into this, uh, building Let me have a little look. Uh, and man, I’m glad I looked at that book. Um, ’cause that book helped me with something that I was really struggling with. And, uh, I, I didn’t know why I was up and down all the time, and I read that book, then I did know.

[01:21:53] Wow. 

[01:21:53] Stephen: And, um- You know[01:22:00] 

[01:22:00] Stephen: I’ve been bullied a lot in my life. I was a goofy looking kid. I was a poor kid. I was the diversity hire. When I would play piano in the streets, I’d go from being told that I’m this very successful investment banker to being told I’m a noise complaint. I’d get the police confiscate my pianos, treating me like a criminal.

[01:22:16] Stephen: W- and then the very next day, getting invited and getting treated like I’m some celebrity at some- Wow … fancy party. Then the next day back in the street. I did a very wild life. I’ve been picked on a lot. I thought the last thing I need is to add Scientologist to the resume. Like, that’s- So I don’t really wanna be a Scientologist.

[01:22:31] Stephen: I, like, it just sounds weird. So this is just gonna be my quiet thing. And I got this book and I was like, “Can I, can I take this book?” I thought it was gonna be like in thousands of dollars, innit? So yeah, it’s like 30, uh, thir- 30, 30 bucks, and I was like, “Okay, but I did help you fix the piano.” And I gave all the money away to that lady, and she was like, “All right.

[01:22:53] Stephen: Well, come back when you got 30 bucks.” And I was like, “Fuck.” And I went, I went back to the [01:23:00] piano, I played the piano, and then I thought, “Shall I go back? Ah, it’s probably not a good idea. I don’t know. I d- I really want that book, and it’s quite an interesting book. I’m probably never gonna meet another Scientologist, and it’s kind of an interesting book to have on the shelf.”

[01:23:14] Stephen: “Fuck it, I’m gonna go.” And I played, and I just happened … The book was, was I th- I think like 30, 32 pounds or something like that. I was like, “I’m just gonna play. I’m gonna get 60. Maybe I’ll buy two books ’cause I’m never gonna go back, so let me just, you 

[01:23:27] know.” Yeah. 

[01:23:28] Stephen: I ended up going back with enough for two books, like 20 minutes later.

[01:23:34] Stephen: I was like, “I’m gonna get two.” I was like, “What else have you got?” She’s like, “Whatever you want. Yeah, take a look. Whatever you want, you can buy it.” “All right.” And I look, and then there’s another book called How to Achieve Self-Confidence. 

[01:23:46] Mm. 

[01:23:47] Stephen: Same thing. I didn’t even open that one. I was like, “I’m gonna buy it.”

[01:23:50] Stephen: It was wrapped in cellophane. I was like, “Yeah, I’ll take it.” I just like put it in a brown bag and I was like- And then, uh, and I, you know, I have studied [01:24:00] everything. It, because I was so worried about losing my mind, I read every major work that’s been written on the mind at university. 166 original works at Durham University.

[01:24:08] Stephen: I read all of them. 

[01:24:09] What? 

[01:24:10] Stephen: Yep. Fuck. I read Freud, I read Nietzsche, I read Hume, I read Hobbes, I read John Locke, I read Simone de Beauvoir, I read, um, you know, Wendell. I, I, I read everything, and um, I was thoroughly convinced. I also read a lot of religious texts. I read the Bhagavad Gita. I read the first five books of the Bible, which is the Torah.

[01:24:31] Stephen: I read a lot of the Bible. I read quite a bit of the Quran. I’d, I’d read, y- you know, and, uh- But I was very confused. 

[01:24:41] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:41] Stephen: To be totally honest. I’ve read all this stuff, like some of it I like, some of it I don’t. I don’t really get it. I don’t… I like the idea of it. I admire people who have that fortitude to have faith.

[01:24:51] Stephen: I admire it, but I don’t think I have it. 

[01:24:53] Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:55] Stephen: Uh, and truthfully, I’m deeply skeptical as a person. 

[01:24:59] Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:59] Stephen: If I [01:25:00] can’t see it, that’s a problem to me. 

[01:25:01] Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:02] Stephen: Mm-hmm. And I’ve lived in a very criminal place where people take advantage of people. 

[01:25:05] Yeah. 

[01:25:05] Stephen: And to be totally honest, I’ve been taken advantage of a lot in my life.

[01:25:08] Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:08] Stephen: Very much so as a musician, but also just all the time. Older brother, the usual. So I’m like, I’m … You’re gonna have to show me three times that it’s real, and I’m gonna have to see it. If you tell me it hops, I need to see it hop. I need to hold it hop. Like, the idea- Mm-hmm … of faith is very hard for me.

[01:25:23] Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:25] Stephen: Mm-hmm. I admire it, but I’m like, “I- I’m a little bruised bunny. I don’t think I can do that.” Like, um- Mm-hmm. But what I will say is, it said at the start of this Scientology book, “Nothing is true for you in this book unless it’s true for you- 

[01:25:40] Mm-hmm … 

[01:25:40] Stephen: according to your observation.” 

[01:25:42] Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:43] Stephen: And essentially, every book starts with, “None of this is holy.

[01:25:47] Stephen: Take it, apply it to your life. If it works, it’s true. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t. No pressure.” 

[01:25:51] Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:53] Stephen: That was relieving to me because whenever I’ve been around religion in the past, there was this pressure to, like, believe in it- Mm-hmm … when I [01:26:00] didn’t know if I did. And I like the community, and I love going to church.

[01:26:03] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:26:04] Stephen: I lo- like, I still, ev- periodically, I go to Hillsong when I’m in London. I had a Shabbat at my house two days ago. Mm-hmm. Got a lot of Jewish friends that love Shabbat. Mm. I like religion because I like being around that vibe. Like on a Shabbat, it’s just basically a family together, being together, beautiful stories, cooking beautiful food.

[01:26:20] Stephen: It’s love. 

[01:26:21] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:26:22] Stephen: We don’t have Thanksgiving in England. I come to America, Thanksgiving, same thing. I love the Thanksgiving. Mm-hmm. It’s like, it’s an excuse to come around people. 

[01:26:27] Mm-hmm. 

[01:26:28] Stephen: Yeah. Diwali in Hinduism is the same thing. It’s an excuse to get together and have a nice meal and really beautiful communication.

[01:26:33] Stephen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Same thing for Ramadan. I used to live next to the mosque in London when I was in banking. Ramadan, for a month, I’m getting home at 3:00, 4:00 in the morning. They’ve got cakes and everything out there. F- so great. So I’ve loved the culture of religion whilst always feeling this pressure to, like, pretend that I’m one of them, but I don’t really know if I am, and oh, I don’t really know ’cause I read this thing that- And ironically, Scientology, of all the things I’d studied, was the one thing which was like, “It’s true if it’s [01:27:00] true for you.

[01:27:00] Stephen: If it’s not true for you, no problem.” And I saw that. That wasn’t bullshit because there was like, in, in the church in London, they’d got Muslims doing Scientology, they’d got Jews doing Scientology, they got Christians doing Scientology, they got atheists doing Scientology. They didn’t care that I was an atheist.

[01:27:16] Stephen: Mm-hmm. There was no one like, “Hey, you can be here, but just so you know, this is what we believe.” None of that. Mm-hmm. And I was sort of waiting for it. I was waiting for that day when they’d come and say, “All right, now we’re gonna tell you the rules.” Or- Mm-hmm … it never really happened. And, um, and that was it.

[01:27:31] Stephen: I applied it. It worked. And to be totally honest, I didn’t tell anybody I was a Scientologist for a very long time. I didn’t wanna get picked on, I didn’t wanna get judged. Mm-hmm. I didn’t wanna, I didn’t want all the bullshit that would go with it. And, um-

[01:27:47] Stephen: You know, there came this point, just to be very, very blunt, where in, in COVID I, I started getting a lot of a following online. I was doing Instagram Lives in COVID. 

[01:27:56] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:27:58] Stephen: I used to not like social media. [01:28:00] To be honest, I still don’t like social media. But in COVID I was like, all my shows got canceled.

[01:28:04] Stephen: I had 38 shows, all got canceled. The deposits that they paid were then force majeure, meaning I gotta give the money back. 

[01:28:11] Hmm. 

[01:28:11] Stephen: But I’d already paid tax on that money. It’s already gone. 

[01:28:13] Hmm. 

[01:28:14] Stephen: I don’t have the money. And they all need it back. And I went, “Ugh, I don’t know what I’m gonna do. I don’t know how long COVID’s gonna last.”

[01:28:19] Stephen: And I hate that all these musicians are now making face masks and doing random . 

[01:28:23] Mm-hmm. 

[01:28:24] Stephen: Ugh. And so I just got my phone out, and I did a live stream for as long as you could do it, which was three hours on Instagram. And as soon as it was over, I click it back on, and I do it again. And I did a three-hour show.

[01:28:34] Stephen: I mean a show, a performance. 

[01:28:36] Mm-hmm. 

[01:28:36] Stephen: Yeah. The first time I did it, zero people. After nine months, between 40,000 and 70,000 people per live stream would be on this live stream. Wild. 

[01:28:45] Aaron: Wow. 

[01:28:45] Stephen: famous people. One of my favorite pianists, Chilly Gonzales, was on there one time. Anderson .Paak, Sting, like cool people- Mm

[01:28:53] Stephen: were, like, coming on. 

[01:28:54] Aaron: Listening to you or, or like 

[01:28:55] Stephen: co-hosting? Yeah, on the live stream. Okay. On the live stream. And I’d see the comment. I’d go, “Oh my God.” And they’d DM me and all this stuff. And, [01:29:00] and then there was this moment where, like, I’d, I’d had this pressure of a very small amount of fame and, and I’d had that in Russia before.

[01:29:11] Yeah. 

[01:29:12] Stephen: But the Russian fame’s a bit more… To be totally honest, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s the same as here, to be fair. The guy who owns the record label also owns the biggest TV shows, also owns the biggest brands, also owns… They just decide this is gonna be popular. It’s popular. 

[01:29:24] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:29:25] Stephen: It’s just… And it, it works the same here.

[01:29:28] Stephen: But over there it’s like there’s a, a couple of guys. So when that’s the song that 

[01:29:31] Brad: was- Like the guy from Ratatouille. Sorry, nobody’s gonna get that 

[01:29:34] Stephen: reference. No, I know. 

[01:29:34] Brad: That’s all right. I apologize. 

[01:29:36] Stephen: There was a dude in Russia and, like, he signed the song, and then the guy said to me, he’s like, “This will be the biggest hit in Russia.”

[01:29:40] Stephen: I’m like, “But the song’s not even that good.” Mm-hmm. He owns the top three radio stations. He owns the top two F- TV shows. Next week I’m playing on the, the biggest, uh, like, their version of Jimmy Kimmel. 

[01:29:49] Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

[01:29:49] Stephen: Booked for all these stadium shows, like, ’cause he owns the stadiums and it’s… So, but that’s not real fame.

[01:29:55] Stephen: It’s not, like, driven by people’s love of the music or anything like that. Hmm. Yeah. And, um, [01:30:00] and this thing on Instagram felt like the virtual thing of playing in the streets. Similar thing. Similar skill set. You gotta stop people that don’t really wanna stop. I’m late for work, I’ve gotta get a bus, and somehow I’ve gotta give you something that’s powerful enough to engage you- Mm-hmm

[01:30:13] Stephen: in three seconds. 

[01:30:14] Mm-hmm. 

[01:30:15] Stephen: Instagram was the same. And, uh, it brought me a lot of peace in my life But I felt this pressure to be whatever they would like. 

[01:30:26] Mm-hmm. Mm. 

[01:30:27] Stephen: And will you like me? Will you not like me? Am I likable? And when there’s that many people, you get mean comments, and they really hit hard.

[01:30:34] Stephen: It’s like, oh my God. I, I, you know, ugh. And I’d start trying to change myself and adjust to the mean comments, but then they’d get even meaner, and I was like, oh. Then be yourself, I’m like, who is myself? I don’t know anymore. And I’d, uh Well, I just reached a point where I, just to be very frank, I just thought, “it.”

[01:30:55] Stephen: I’m just… I, um, this pressure to try and be [01:31:00] whatever is gonna be pleasing to people- Mm-hmm … is suffocating me. Mm. And I don’t actually know who I am. I’m just gonna be an open book. 

[01:31:05] Mm-hmm. 

[01:31:06] Stephen: And I just decided to be an open book, and I would be an open book. I mean, I talked about everything. Yeah. Everything on these live streams.

[01:31:13] Stephen: And that resonated with who it resonated with. Some people didn’t like it, some people liked it, but I found kind of my tribe. 

[01:31:17] Mm-hmm. 

[01:31:18] Stephen: And they asked me about everything, and they were asking me, you know, “What toothpaste do you use? What hair products do you use? What this do you use?” And eventually they asked me, “What do you believe in?”

[01:31:27] Stephen: I was like, “hell I kind of dodged that question. That’s a bit of a deep one and I, I don’t wanna offend anybody and blah, blah, blah. And I… How come you have so much energy? And then someone asked the question, “Do you ever get down?” 

[01:31:40] Mm. 

[01:31:40] Stephen: And I’m like, “Man, you’re, like, hitting the nail on the head.” And I know I, like, I read this book called Ups and Downs and I…

[01:31:46] Stephen: And then I was just like, “Fuck it. I’m just gonna go for it. Fuck it.” 

[01:31:49] Mm-hmm. 

[01:31:49] Stephen: And I was like you know what, you know, I studied Scientology, apply it to my life. Amazingly, like, 95% of people, you know, don’t give a fuck. It’s got nothing to do with, like, [01:32:00] I could be a Muslim, you’d never know. 

[01:32:02] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:32:02] Stephen: Like, I’m not here to try and convert you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[01:32:06] Stephen: You asked the question, there’s the answer. 

[01:32:07] Mm-hmm. 

[01:32:08] Stephen: That was so freeing to me. 

[01:32:09] Mm-hmm. 

[01:32:09] Stephen: Very freeing to be like, “This is what I am.” And I’ve been that way now for quite some years. 

[01:32:14] Mm-hmm. 

[01:32:15] Stephen: And, uh, I di- I to- you’ll see on my social media, like, didn’t post shit for, like, some years. 

[01:32:20] Mm-hmm. 

[01:32:22] Stephen: Because what came from being as transparent as that, playing to a s- you know, a couple of stadiums a day, I was not equipped.

[01:32:32] Stephen: Like, it, it was- … because, dude, like, if one in 1,000 people are crazy- 

[01:32:36] Mm-hmm … 

[01:32:36] Stephen: well, do the math. And I was having people, people were breaking into the studio. I had a recording studio in London. They were breaking in while I wasn’t there and, like, you know, leaving shit in the studios and clues. They were breaking into my house.

[01:32:49] Stephen: There was a chick who broke into my house and got naked, laid in my bed. I come home, she’s there, and she’s got that, the weird eyes, and I’m like, “I’m gonna get John Lennon-ed. Like, I’m gonna get shot in the fucking head.” Mm-hmm. I don’t want any of this. And, um- 

[01:32:59] Aaron: [01:33:00] The, and you’re saying this is after 

[01:33:02] Stephen: this- After the Instagram stuff, yeah.

[01:33:03] Aaron: After all the… So basically after playing online. After playing online. Not, not after, not after specifically, like, saying you’re a Scientologist. 

[01:33:09] Stephen: No, no, nothing to do with that. Oh, 

[01:33:10] Aaron: okay, okay. Just- Just making sure. Just making sure. 

[01:33:11] Stephen: It’s just, the nature of, like, growing- Fame … an audience online. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:33:15] Stephen: And I was like, I don’t actually know if I want this. Mm-hmm. And I don’t And why would I wanna be f- like, if I think about fame, I’m like, “Why do I wanna be famous?” Well, uh, the 14-year-old me, let me just be honest, so I can loads of women and get paid loads of money to not really do anything and blah, blah, blah.

[01:33:29] Stephen: Well, I don’t have that anymore. 

[01:33:29] Mm. 

[01:33:30] Stephen: I’ve, like, outgrown that kid. 

[01:33:31] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:33:32] Stephen: I have an ethical foundation that I didn’t used to have. I don’t want to hurt people. I don’t wanna be a toxic person. Mm-hmm. I don’t wanna be… I have an ethical foundation now that, that has allowed me to genuinely like who I am.

[01:33:42] Stephen: Mm-hmm. Not pretend to like who I am. Mm-hmm. Not some bull- Like I, I go to bed good at night because I keep a contract with myself. So that’s me now. So what’s the point of fame? It’s just this bullshit. It’s just so much bullshit. 

[01:33:56] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:33:56] Stephen: Because, you know, even… I thought, you know, all these girls that, like, [01:34:00] scream outside your hotel room, that’s not the normal ones.

[01:34:03] Stephen: Mm-hmm. Normal people don’t camp all night to scream at you. 

[01:34:05] Aaron: Yep, yep. Yeah. 

[01:34:06] Stephen: They’re, they’re, you know, so- 

[01:34:08] Brad: Yeah … 

[01:34:08] Stephen: I’d have some people that camp outside my house, and then there’s this weird like- Oh. Mm. You know, “You love me,” but this can easily turn. 

[01:34:15] Mm-hmm. 

[01:34:15] Stephen: If I, like, do the wrong thing or I don’t quite acknowledge you right, this is gonna turn to, “I hate you.

[01:34:18] Stephen: I’m gonna kill you.” 

[01:34:19] Mm-hmm. ‘

[01:34:19] Stephen: Cause there’s something, like, you know, one eye is facing over there type deal. 

[01:34:22] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:34:23] Stephen: And, uh, and I was like, I don’t know. This isn’t why I got into music. It really is… It cer- Maybe it w- I don’t know, but it is certainly not why I’m in music now. 

[01:34:31] Mm-hmm. 

[01:34:32] Stephen: I love music, and I was like, “that.”

[01:34:33] Stephen: And so I carried on doing the shows. I leaned into doing the school. Took a step back from it, and now I’m coming back to it to… I’ve gone this whole full circle. I’m now coming back to release music, to put- to under my own steam, no label, no nothing, from a sincere love of music, from a sincere, the sincere place of like it’ll radiate with who it radiates with, and I’m not going to [01:35:00] pander and, and dance monkey dance to try and…

[01:35:02] Stephen: You know, I don’t wanna… I hate social media. I’m not gonna propitiate. I’m not gonna make myself like, “Please like me.” I’m not… It’s none of that . I am who I am. I’ll resonate with who I resonate with. If you love it, I love music. That’s why I’m here. If you love music too and you love this music, we’re gonna connect ’cause man, this music is like soul food to me.

[01:35:20] Stephen: That’s what it’s about. And the rest of it, I love to talk about anything. We’ll talk about anything. I love communication. For all of the things I’ve been through in my life and all the things I’ve seen, the thing that makes me happiest is a good chat with good people. 

[01:35:32] Mm-hmm. 

[01:35:33] Stephen: If we had good food here, even better.

[01:35:34] Stephen: If we had good food and good music, perfect. Yeah. That’s what makes me happiest, is a great conversation with people I love. Dinner table. Everything. That’s what… You know, take everything else, that’s what makes me happiest. Okay, good. This is just an extension of that. And it’ll work or it won’t work, and who knows?

[01:35:50] Stephen: You know, I sit here today, let’s see what it goes and does. Maybe it gets millions of streams. Maybe no one gives a . I don’t know, I can have either of it. But what I’m not gonna do is [01:36:00] get into this condition of lying about who I am and living in some lie to somehow try and win so that my avatar gets popular, but blah, blah, blah.

[01:36:09] Stephen: I ain’t got time for it. 

[01:36:10] Aaron: Yeah. 

[01:36:11] Stephen: And that comes with everything, including, you know, everything. 

[01:36:14] Aaron: Wow. So I do have to say that, uh, what’s incredible is that through your school and through what you’ve done, you are financially capable to not have to go and go on with some label who might do something that you may not like.

[01:36:29] Aaron: I mean, that is, I, I, I believe… Is that true? 

[01:36:31] Stephen: I mean, I’ve always… Look, I got offered a record deal when I had no money for £600,000. Um, it’s a true story. I, I wrote a song called Her Song about a made-up girl next door. 

[01:36:45] Mm-hmm. 

[01:36:46] Stephen: There was no girls next door when I was a kid, but- What if there was? And I wrote this song about her, and it’s very sweet, very innocent.

[01:36:52] Stephen: You live two doors down, but it feels like miles. And I wanna go round and talk to you, but I’m so scared like a child. [01:37:00] I know that you don’t want me, I’m not your type. I know that you don’t want me, but sometimes I hope you might. And, uh, so cute. And this guy from a label had found out about me, and I got a bit of hype in the streets, and he was like, “Oh, let me come to one of your shows.”

[01:37:15] Stephen: I didn’t have any shows. So I got all my mates together, and I booked out a recording studio. I was like, “Yeah, I’m doing some thing in a studio.” And, uh, 100 people, like friends and friends of friends came, and I played this song. And then someone in the audience said, “That guy who came was crying when you played that song.”

[01:37:28] Stephen: And I was like, “Yes, I’ve made it.” And he invites me to the studio, and he offered me a record deal, and he’s like, “We- we’re gonna make you the Justin Bieber of piano, and we’re gonna do this and that, and blah, blah, blah.” And he offered me a contract, and it was £600,000 up front, “But we, we wanna help you become cooler.”

[01:37:46] Mm. 

[01:37:49] Stephen: I mean, I’m not cool. I mean, I know I’m not cool, but- … “Go on.” “Uh, we just want you… We’re gonna help you work that song to have commercial success.” 

[01:37:59] Ooh. 

[01:37:59] Stephen: You know? [01:38:00] Um, need to help you appeal to, like, a bigger market than just the street thing. That’s cute, but… Um, so we just want you to rework that song and, and we want you to liken being in love to being on drugs.

[01:38:12] Aaron: Mm. You’re joking me. 

[01:38:14] Stephen: No. Written in the contract, by the way. 

[01:38:17] Aaron: Mm. 

[01:38:17] Stephen: What? Also written in the contract that should my physical health take a turn, they can step in and, like, assign me a doctor, you know. So say I break my leg on tour- 

[01:38:26] Brad: Get you on drugs. 

[01:38:28] Stephen: Get you on drugs. Pardon? Get you 

[01:38:28] Aaron: on 

[01:38:29] Stephen: drugs, 

[01:38:29] Brad: basically. 

[01:38:29] Stephen: They, they can get you on drugs.

[01:38:30] Stephen: Did I want drugs? No, no, no. 

[01:38:31] Aaron: No, no, no. The contract says- The contract says if you break your leg, they can give you whatever care they want to. 

[01:38:34] Stephen: Yeah. To, to… So that I can fulfill my obligations as an artist. But it said anything physical, mental, or spiritual that would go wrong- What? … they can step in and say, “Wrong.”

[01:38:43] Stephen: So if I’m on tour and I get some bout of depression, they’re gonna help me out with it. Holy. Straight away I’m thinking about my uncle, ECT, fucking suicide. Anti-ECT, suicide. Wait a minute, dude. Hold on. Can we just remove that? No, no, that’s, that’s non-negotiable. Okay, the thing is, uh, the love and drugs, this song’s not really [01:39:00] about love and drugs.

[01:39:00] Stephen: Listen, dude, you don’t get it. Teenagers, they like love, they like drugs, so we’re gonna put that together. This is what… You wanna be a star? I mean, you can keep doing the street thing, dude. It’s lovely. We love what you do. Inspiring. But if you wanna, you know, if you wanna be successful, this is what we do.

[01:39:18] Brad: There’s that word again. 

[01:39:19] Stephen: Wow. Yeah. You wanna be successful? So that… And I had nothing. I had no money. And, um- Mm. That was, that was a moral decision at the time. And I went and I sat down and I tried. I took the song home and I was like, “I can’t. What? Fucking… What do I write about this?” I had reached my own conclusion privately in life that I don’t like drugs.

[01:39:42] Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:43] Stephen: Nothing to do with anything, just having observed and been around it. Just it didn’t make anybody better. 

[01:39:48] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:49] Stephen: I’d lived in a place where drugs were very everywhere. 

[01:39:52] Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:53] Stephen: This, you know, indigence, poverty, psychosis. I’m like, “Not good. Don’t fucking want that.” [01:40:00] Yeah. 

[01:40:00] Mm-hmm.

[01:40:04] Stephen: You know, you asked me about the rich people. I’d met the drugged up, fucked up rich people, and I’d met the wake up at 5:00 AM, super, super clean, blah. Like, I could see who was making the wealth. 

[01:40:14] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:40:15] Stephen: You know? And, um, I knew it was, even if they weren’t making the wealth, who was having the happy life.

[01:40:19] Stephen: Yeah. Mm-hmm. My mom never touched a drug in her life, and she’s a happy woman. And, so- And so I go back and I try to negotiate it. I said… They say, immediately cut me out. The same year, Beyoncé, Drunk in Love. Uh, “I can’t feel my face when I’m with you” 

[01:40:39] Aaron: Yep, that’s about to drop. “

[01:40:40] Stephen: It’s a para- paradise” with the LSD video.

[01:40:43] Stephen: I looked at this, I was like, fuck. Now I’m looking at it. So many songs that are huge hits happen to be likening love and drugs. Well, would you look at that? 

[01:40:52] Brad: Wow. Oh my God. 

[01:40:53] Stephen: And so many of the songs. Pay a little attention now to how much… Look at the lifestyle [01:41:00] that’s promoted in major pop music, from self-harm to…

[01:41:06] Stephen: It’s interesting. Yeah. And then look who owns the labels. Yeah. Look at the companies that are invested in those labels and what they might be interested in promoting. 

[01:41:12] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:41:12] Stephen: And Mark, uh, maybe you’re a big drinks company, let’s say. I’m just playing hypothesis. Maybe you’re a massive drinks company. 

[01:41:19] Aaron: Like a, like a vodka or something.

[01:41:21] Stephen: Maybe. Yeah. Let’s just say hypothetically. Maybe that drinks company was my client when I was in banking. Maybe I’ve seen all their financials and I know exactly how it works. And maybe 20 million’s not a lot to give some artist to make him super popular, to have him making hip hop songs about getting drunk and taking a lot of stuff.

[01:41:44] Stephen: And we’ll give him a vodka deal, and we’ll turn him into a billionaire, easy money. We’ll make him a success story for the Black community and- but it’s all about this lifestyle. It’s all about keeping him on the sizzurp and the vo- Like, oh yeah, that’ll be, uh… Nothing for me. A billionaire, 50 billion for me.

[01:41:59] Stephen: Yeah. Just imagine if [01:42:00] there would be maybe some people who might be interested in profiting from the degradation of the world. Mm. Because this world, I’ll tell you one thing that a very wealthy guy said to me. I was on the boat, the super yacht, not a boat, the super yacht outside Capri a couple years ago with a very, very v- one of the wealthiest men in the world.

[01:42:17] Stephen: You definitely know his name. Um, he’d asked me to go and play a concert on his boat. And I went and played this show on a boat. A boat, a floating island. And, uh, first night we, we are having a great chat and, “Oh, we’ll do, we’ll do the show tomorrow. Just stay.” And I ended up staying four days, and I was a bit sad.

[01:42:36] Stephen: And I was sitting on the boat and I was like, “Do you think, do you think I could ever get a boat like this? Just tell me. Like, don’t bullshit. Just tell me, like, is it even possible? Should I just like… ” ‘Cause it’s a bit sad that the only way I can be on the boat is to hang out with these guys. 

[01:42:49] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:42:50] Stephen: But they can do it whenever they want.

[01:42:51] Stephen: It’s like, it’s not really my boat. It’s cool to see it, but after a certain point it’s almost a bit depressing ’cause I can’t have it. I can’t do what I wanna do. And, um, I was like, “Man, I’m n- [01:43:00] it’s gonna hurt to leave this place.” And I’ve, I’ve seen a lot of like cool places and I’m like, man, that’s, that’s gonna suck to go back to the normal life.

[01:43:08] Stephen: And, um, “Dude, just tell me like for real, can I, could I, could I get this?” He told me something very, very fucking true. And he was like, “The I can tell you exactly. This would go into 15 minutes, but to cut it very short, he was like, “Look, you’re gonna make a lot of money because you solve a really big problem.

[01:43:31] Stephen: Uh, but when you go to solve that problem, you’re gonna realize something really quickly when you go for your fundraising, and you’re suddenly finding it really hard. But why? The, the world is the way it is, for good and bad, because somebody profits from it. Why is there war? ‘Cause there’s defense companies.

[01:43:47] Stephen: Why is there cancer? Because there’s drug companies. If you wanna know who’s causing it, just look who benefits, and that’s why it’s that way.” And he said, “So when you come with a solution, they’re coming for you. Do you wanna know why I have all these bodyguards and we live on a yacht? So they [01:44:00] can’t get to us.”

[01:44:01] Stephen: Like, it’s when you go up against this structure, they’re coming for you, and they’re coming legally. They’re coming in any way they can. They’re gonna tear you down because you threaten the way they make their money. And it’s not emotional, that’s just how it is. And so when I look at, you know, we b- we, we know this.

[01:44:20] Stephen: I look at the current scene of the music industry, and I look at what it promotes, and it’s … Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot of artists I really admire, but broadly, major label artists, it’s like they promote degradation. They promote promiscuity. If you don’t agree with their political agenda, then you’re out.

[01:44:38] Stephen: Like, you’ve gotta just say these same things. Um, and you’ve gotta be like … You know, I just look. It breaks my heart. I see these amazing talented women, and they’re just, like, shaking ass on Instagram, and I’m like … You’re like, “This is not that far from prostitution.” 

[01:44:57] Mm-hmm. 

[01:44:57] Stephen: This is not that far from, like- [01:45:00] And I’m waiting every time a new artist gets signed, I’m like, I’m just waiting for the over-sexualization of you.

[01:45:05] Stephen: I’m waiting for the moment where you come and make a song that’s about like, “Let’s get fucked up, it’s Friday. And like, fuck everything. Let’s be irresponsible and fucking ruin our lives, man. Yeah, man.” I’m just waiting for it. It’s coming. ‘Cause that’s what’s get pushed, and it gets pushed because someone profits from it, and I don’t wanna play that game.

[01:45:23] Stephen: And it, it, it almost made me quit music so many times because I’m like, I don’t wanna do something and be unsuccessful at it. Of course I don’t. Everybody wants to win. But that question that we asked earlier of what is success, I’ve really had to sit with that for a long time to get my own definition of it, to find out, well, what is success for me?

[01:45:41] Stephen: ‘Cause I love The Rolling Stones and I love fucking Bieber and I love Kanye West I mean, look at what’s happening to him though. Like- Mm-hmm … look what happens when he tried to resist. But look at, well, look at what happens if you dare. I mean, dude, it’s over. It’s game over. And then equally, [01:46:00] I look at a lot of other artists.

[01:46:01] Stephen: Every artist movie’s the same. Super talented, they get the evil manager or the evil label. “Eh, there’s some drugs, kid. There’s some prostitutes. Here’s some easy girls. Let’s degrade you.” 

[01:46:12] Yep. “

[01:46:12] Stephen: And now let’s wheel you out so you can shake your hips, Elvis, and make all the girls scream. And now you start out as a gospel singer.”

[01:46:21] Hmm. 

[01:46:22] Stephen: Elvis. “Glory, glory, hallelujah.” And now it’s, “Oh, hobo, hobo.” And it drugged up out your fucking tits. 

[01:46:29] Wow. 

[01:46:30] Stephen: Until you can’t- 

[01:46:31] Oh my God, you’re right. 

[01:46:31] Stephen: Yeah, until you don’t wanna be here anymore. Look at Justin Bieber who starts out, “If I was your boyfriend,” and then it’s- One of us is only crying … weed and this and that.

[01:46:38] Stephen: Yeah. And it … Look at every … Fucking, it, dude, it happens every time. But when that goes, and I’ve, I’ve, I’ve played with a lot of … You know at these private shows that I’ll play, um, uh, they often hire real famous people. I met a lot of interesting people, and the guys who go down that path, it just destroys your soul because you got into music ’cause you love music.[01:47:00] 

[01:47:00] Stephen: And through the pressure of this whole system that you’re a part of, you’re now pushing something that you … I don’t, I know the kid inside you don’t believe in that. 

[01:47:06] Mm-hmm. 

[01:47:06] Stephen: But it takes some moral fortitude to give up. Y- there is no option. You didn’t build the success you’ve got, and so we can take it away real easy.

[01:47:15] Yeah. 

[01:47:15] Stephen: And, um, particularly on the music side, I’ve lived it. I had a couple of contracts in Russia and, uh, record deals, and it’s always done with this thing of like, “You be the artist and we’ll take care of the business. You, you, you’re such an amazing artist, you don’t need to … We’ll take care of that. Don’t worry about it.

[01:47:28] Stephen: Would you … You need a car? We can get you a car. You need a car?” 

[01:47:30] Mm-hmm. “

[01:47:31] Stephen: And tonight we’ve got you the table at that club. Oh, it’s gonna be amazing. We’ve got amazing girls are gonna come there. They love you. They love you. They’re such a big fan. You got … All the champagne’s already paid for,” blah, blah, blah.

[01:47:39] Stephen: “In fact, you know what hotel are you in? Dude, guy like this, he can’t be in this hotel. Get him the five star. He needs to be in the Ritz. We’re gonna get the suite in the Ritz. And by the way, just, just … By the way, but when you’re on stage, can you, can you just … ” And it starts, it’s in micro steps. It’s micro steps of degradation.

[01:47:56] Mm-hmm, 

[01:47:57] Stephen: mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And, uh, I don’t wanna be part of that, dude. I [01:48:00] just don’t wanna be part. It’s not good for my soul. And so I don’t know where this will go. All I can say is I have an amazing life, and I play I don’t know how the I’m doing this. I’m still making it up. I started out in the streets, I’m making it up.

[01:48:14] Stephen: I still … I go around the world, I do what I love. I’m shocked people pay me, ungodly some- sometimes. I, and I wanna play music for people. 

[01:48:25] Aaron: Wow. 

[01:48:26] Stephen: I wanna play for people. I wanna play in the streets, I wanna play in the hospitals, I wanna play music for people. And I will just hold that ethical line the whole time, and I’ll get the most success I can whilst not giving up one inch on my integrity.

[01:48:40] Stephen: And I will take music and I will put music on that pedestal. And by the way, you made the point about school. I have thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of students every single day who look at me as the example, and I wanna set a good example. I wanna show them a different story to a hubba [01:49:00] hubba, take cocaine, die in a toilet.

[01:49:01] Stephen: Like, I wanna show them- Yeah … like, no, this is not what music’s about. This is music. It’s this higher level thing. It’s this aesthetics. This is building new worlds. It’s, it’s the sound of dreams. It’s the imagination of future. It’s this spiritual thing which unites a culture. You know, played a stadium in Uzbekistan, Muslim country.

[01:49:23] Stephen: Nobody speaks English. 28,000 people showed up. I sang Hallelujah. I was on stage seven hours. I was just like, “You’re gonna have to drag me off this stage.” I played for seven hours. The president was standing in the audience of that country. His daughter, her kids were in the … standing in the audience. I ran out of songs to play.

[01:49:42] Stephen: I was like, “Oh, what song do you want?” “Hallelujah.” “Okay.” And then I looked at the piano, I was like, “Why did I say Hallelujah? I don’t even know how to play this song.” So I started doing it a cappella. I heard there was a secret chord. Oh, Hallelujah. But you don’t really care for music, do you? And when you get to the bit of that song, [01:50:00] Hallelujah, everyone joined in.

[01:50:04] Stephen: Dude, you felt the earth sink. Mm.

[01:50:10] Stephen: And at the end of that show, the organizer came in the room and they were very angry that I’d gone over time because it means, you know, you’ve gotta pay for extra security and the lighting and the crew. And so the show made no profit. They were very annoyed. They’re gonna sue me, blah, blah, blah. And this woman comes in and he like immediately goes quiet.

[01:50:25] Stephen: And she said, um, “The daughter of the president wants to meet you Do you wanna meet him? I’m like, “Yeah, all right.” They’re on the other side of this door, and we’re in a little green room. “Other side of that door?” “Yeah.” “All right.” So there’s some rule, you don’t look in the eyes, you just look down. They open their…

[01:50:43] Stephen: Okay. There’s all… Okay, so he tell me the rules. I go, “All right,” I do the thing, hand comes out, I’m shaky. Wall of cameras. He said, “You know, I never thought I’d see anybody do that.”

[01:50:55] Stephen: Oh, it’s good. Was it that good? And, uh- Is it a compliment or an [01:51:00] insult? And, uh

[01:51:04] Stephen: She had never thought I’d see 28,000 Muslims singing Hallelujah. And what got showed from that concert, not just in their country but in all the Christian countries surrounding them, was thousands of women in hijabs crying, singing Hallelujah. 

[01:51:18] Mm. 

[01:51:18] Stephen: That’s music. That’s music. It’s … Would you mind? Would you mind the song that I will release at the end of this month is my best friend got cancer.

[01:51:27] Stephen: I went in the street. I, I wrote this song to try and reach him. It’s a song about … It sounds like a love song. It’s a song about let me in And I played that song around the world. Can I, 

[01:51:42] can I show you 

[01:51:43] Stephen: something? ‘Cause this is music. You asked me like, oh, what do you know? 

[01:51:45] Aaron: By the way, I love this song. I’ve sang it to my baby, my baby at different times.

[01:51:50] Aaron: My three-year-old, my one-year-old, one-year-old. I mean, this song is incredible. 

[01:51:53] Stephen: And I’ll- 

[01:51:54] Aaron: Really, like it- Why I 

[01:51:55] Stephen: haven’t sung it to- 

[01:51:56] Aaron: Wow. 

[01:51:57] Stephen: If I rescue you from the [01:52:00] darkness, would you mind? Would you mind? It’s that song. Um, and I found out at a charity auction you bought my show. 

[01:52:11] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:52:11] Stephen: So I’ll be singing that for you.

[01:52:13] Stephen: Um, I’m gonna play you- 

[01:52:15] Brad: Our plan was to have you sing Wheels On The Bus for our 

[01:52:17] Stephen: three-year-old. Ah. 

[01:52:18] Brad: No, I’m not joking. 

[01:52:20] Stephen: Dude, I’ll, yeah, I’ll sing you Play Date, whatever you want, mate. Um, I’d like to… I, I’ll send you this video so you can just put it up on the video, but just for the point of being here right now.

[01:52:29] Stephen’s friend: Just thought I’d let you know, I was just with my mom. She has stage four cancer, and is, I don’t know, I’d say a month, two months away. Um, she asked, you know, ’cause I say, I’d send her videos of, like, us playing racquetball and stuff. She asked, you know, “You still with your friend, the one that you play the sports with?”

[01:52:56] Stephen’s friend: I said, “Yeah. Yeah, I just had dinner with him last night. It was [01:53:00] great.” And, um, and she goes, “Is that your business partner?” I said, “No, that’s Jeremy. Um, this is Steven, Steven Ridley. He’s the piano player.” And she goes, “Oh, right.” I said, “Yeah, you know, here’s one of his songs. It’s my favorite song, actually.” And, um, I said, “Do you wanna hear?

[01:53:21] Stephen’s friend: He plays the piano and he sings.” She says, “Of course.” And so I play it. She’s lying in bed, right? So she doesn’t get up much. Um, maybe once or twice a day she gets, she’s able to get out of bed. She’s on morphine full time. And I play her Would You Mind. And[01:54:00] 

[01:54:01] She actually started singing. She was smiling

[01:54:19] A very special moment and she was singing along with you, and it was very special. So I just wanted to tell you that, and I wanted to say thanks

[01:54:35] Mm-hmm 

[01:54:35] Stephen: So I wanna do that 

[01:54:36] Beautiful 

[01:54:37] Stephen: And as much as I got crazies in my life through Instagram before, I used to get that … I mean, I still do. Every day in the school, wake up in the school, literally every day, hundreds of comments. First thing I check on my phone, hundreds of comments of, “Oh my God, this changed my life,” and blah, blah.

[01:54:53] Stephen: I’m like, “Yeah, that’s why I’m doing what I wanna do. I wanna do that. I wanna do that stuff.” And me going out and been some- pushing [01:55:00] something that would ultimately destroy people, I’m like, “No, that’s it. That’s it. That’s it.” And that’s what music did for me as a kid. That’s me paying it forward. That’s the, that’s the group I wanna contribute to.

[01:55:12] Stephen: And, um, and that’s success. It’s that, you know? 

[01:55:17] Aaron: Yes. 

[01:55:17] Stephen: For me at least. 

[01:55:19] Aaron: Thank you for doing that. 

[01:55:21] Stephen: Yeah, dude. 

[01:55:21] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, you know, what do you think about making a label for other people as well to follow 

[01:55:27] Stephen: kind of the 

[01:55:28] Aaron: s- Oh, I was gonna ask that same question 

[01:55:29] Stephen: Yeah, you know, I’ll figure it out, and then I’d love to.

[01:55:31] Stephen: Particularly with the school. You know, I’ve … It’s very funny. Like, I’m doing this thing in Nashville in two weeks. I’m doing a live thing in my school. It’s the first time I’ve done it. In-person experience. 

[01:55:40] Brad: Mm. 

[01:55:41] Stephen: So I think it’s, like, 35 people or something is coming. We booked, like, this top studio. We’re gonna

[01:55:45] Stephen: Country Music Hall of Fame, and we’ve got this songwriter who’s coming and … So there’s all kinds of people that are coming on this. There’s like a seven-time Grammy Awards winner is coming. Music teachers, and then some people who’ve never touched a piano. Um, but quite a [01:56:00] number of people who’ve come in are, like, these indie artists, and they’re like, “Oh, you should make a label.”

[01:56:05] Stephen: I was like, “I don’t know what the I’m doing.” But I love the idea of it. I love the idea. I’ve just got to figure it out first. So I’m gonna release some music. I’ll figure it out. If I can figure it out, then I’d love to make a label. The whole point of Ridley Academy was to, like, show people what I’d learned.

[01:56:17] Stephen: So I really struggled to learn piano, and I was like, “Oh.” But then I finally finished learning, and I realized, oh, it could be actually a lot simpler. So then that was Ridley Academy. So it’ll be the same thing. If I can figure out how without succumbing to all this degradation- Mm-hmm … you could commercially release music, good.

[01:56:32] Stephen: If I figure that out, I’ll certainly find a way to pay it forward. 

[01:56:35] Mm. 

[01:56:36] Stephen: I do definitely wanna make my own booking agency. Um, ’cause I do a lot of shows and, um, that for me is what it’s all about. It’s about the in-person live experience, sharing that magic with people. And in those moments, nothing matters.

[01:56:51] Stephen: The nak- everyone’s naked. It doesn’t matter. It’s like being in the sauna. You know, everyone takes their watch off to go in the sauna. Everyone’s the same. It’s the great equalizer. That’s music. It doesn’t care your [01:57:00] language, doesn’t care your religion, doesn’t care nationality. It doesn’t care what side you’re on.

[01:57:04] Stephen: It’s universal. And it, for all of time, it’s brought people together. From dancing around a campfire to, you know, “Imagine there’s no…” Like, these anthems have changed the world. And, um- That’s what I, you know, that’s what I wanna do, on whatever scale I can do it. But something’s better than nothing, so let me, you know.

[01:57:27] Aaron: Don’t do nothing. 

[01:57:28] Stephen: Don’t do nothing. 

[01:57:30] Aaron: Huh? 

[01:57:31] Stephen: Huh? 

[01:57:31] Aaron: Huh? 

[01:57:32] Stephen: Is that the name of the podcast? 

[01:57:33] Aaron: Yes, sir. Yes. Yeah, dude. That’s the name of the podcast. Oh, bro. Come on. Come on, come on, come 

[01:57:38] Stephen: on. Yeah. But no, I love that. Yeah, figure out, yeah. 

[01:57:41] Aaron: Good. Thank you so much, dude, for coming. This has been- Pleasure, man … just unbelievable.

[01:57:46] Aaron: We definitely went a bit over time. 

[01:57:48] Stephen: Yeah. 

[01:57:49] Aaron: Because- Yeah, it’s fantastic … I feel like we can talk for three hours more. Dude, 

[01:57:51] Stephen: I could, we could 

[01:57:52] Aaron: do six of these. You know what I mean? Probably do a series. We can, you know, but, um- Yeah … honestly, I just wanna say you need to check out Would You Mind. Uh, [01:58:00] by the time this is out, there’s solely the pre-order, whatever.

[01:58:01] Aaron: We’ll have a link in there. Yeah. The song is unbelievable. It’ll be out. Share it. Yeah, we’ll put something in there. Uh, reach out to this man. If you wanna learn to play piano, check out Riley Academy. Yeah. And, um, bro- Yeah … thank you for coming and sharing- Dude, what a pleasure, dude … just one tiny percent, percent of a percent of your story.

[01:58:14] Stephen: Um- Thank you for giving me the space to just be myself without needing to, you know, any of that stuff. Absolutely. By the way, I’ve, I’ve… You done a podcast yet where you guys get interviewed? 

[01:58:24] Aaron: Yeah. 

[01:58:24] Stephen: Okay, good. 

[01:58:24] Aaron: Link down below to Brad’s interview and- 

[01:58:26] Stephen: Yeah, yeah, 

[01:58:26] Aaron: yeah … to my interview all right as well. Boom.

[01:58:28] Stephen: Love it, mate. Thank you.