Don't Do Nothing

[00:00:00] Claude: I was all of a sudden very psychotically jealous 

[00:00:03] Aaron: There are a lot of people, and a lot of people cheat- Yeah … and a lot of people don’t cheat. 

[00:00:06] Claude: But then there comes a day where we can no longer keep that in, and we just explode. Mm-hmm. 

[00:00:12] Brad: What did you show your- 

[00:00:12] Claude: Dianetics book. And as soon as I read it, I thought, “Oh.”

[00:00:16] Claude: Yep. “This is it.” I was not ever, ever, ever jealous again. 

[00:00:20] Brad: All right, guys. Today we have, uh, a lovely guest for the Don’t Do Nothing podcast. It is Claude Rossignol-Volansky. Uh, she is the wife of Mr. Noah Volansky, who we had on not too long ago. Uh, she is a professional dancer and choreographer, and has been for 23 years.

[00:00:41] Brad: That’s incredible. That’s a hell of a career. 

[00:00:43] Claude: Thanks. 

[00:00:43] Brad: Especially in that industry. 

[00:00:44] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:00:45] Brad: Uh, she has danced or choreographed with Chris Brown, J-Lo, Pussycat Dolls, Avril Lavigne, Jonas Brothers, Demi Lovato, Carmen Electra, and Blink-182. 

[00:00:55] Claude: Mm. 

[00:00:55] Brad: Incredible list. She is also a staff member [00:01:00] at a Church of Scientology in Las Vegas, and she and her husband have over 700,000 followers on their social media, which is about parenting and life as a beautiful married couple with a young six-year-old chap named Nova, who we just met.

[00:01:15] Brad: Pleasure to have you. 

[00:01:16] Claude: Thank you for having me. 

[00:01:17] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:01:18] Claude: Thank you. That was awesome. 

[00:01:19] Aaron: W- we did a great job. Well, you did a great job on the name, okay? ‘Cause I just have to say- … it’s written like Claude. 

[00:01:25] Claude: It is written like Claude. 

[00:01:26] Aaron: S- so why is it Claude? Like, how… Just, I, I just, I just wanna know the story. 

[00:01:32] Claude: Okay. That 

[00:01:32] Aaron: was fast.

[00:01:32] Claude: So I’m originally from Montreal. I was born in a little town called Beloeil in Quebec, Canada. 

[00:01:38] Brad: Run that by me again. 

[00:01:40] Claude: Beloeil. 

[00:01:40] Brad: Beloeil? 

[00:01:41] Claude: Yeah. Oh, okay. Which really means, like, beautiful eye. Beloeil. 

[00:01:45] Brad: Oh. 

[00:01:45] Claude: Ah. Pretty eye. Yeah 

[00:01:48] Brad: But it’s mushed together as 

[00:01:49] Claude: one word. But it’s mushed together as one- Mm … and, like, really not spelled like that, you know what I mean?

[00:01:52] Claude: Like, there’s some letters… Anyways, I’m horrible at spelling in French. But, um, so I was born there. [00:02:00] And A-U in French is pronounced like an O. Like, if you’ve ever- That’s right … seen, like, Eau de Parfum. Yes, right. It’s E-A-U. So c- it’s only Claude in English, because the sound, the A-U is ah, like Laura. 

[00:02:14] Aaron: Okay.

[00:02:15] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:02:15] Claude: But in F- and in Spanish it’s like- Ooh … Claudia, you know? Yes. They say Claudia. That’s 

[00:02:19] Brad: right. 

[00:02:20] Claude: Right. So just different ways of pronouncing the A-U combination. 

[00:02:25] Brad: Oh, incredible. 

[00:02:25] Claude: Yeah. I 

[00:02:26] Aaron: love it. Le- le cloud. 

[00:02:28] Claude: Le cloud. 

[00:02:29] Aaron: Okay, okay. 

[00:02:31] Claude: It would be la cloud, you know, la- La … feminine. 

[00:02:33] Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[00:02:35] Aaron: Yeah. Le cl- la… I, dude, I, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Hey, it’s 

[00:02:37] Claude: okay. We’re 

[00:02:38] Aaron: good. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Uh, so that’s great, and I’m so happy that we got you laughing immediately. Because you- Yeah. Yeah … your laugh is just, is like, epic. I just don’t know. Thank you. Like, it, did- It is … did you see those videos of those people that are, like, laughing and each person makes themselves laugh- Yes

[00:02:54] Aaron: ’cause they all have- Yes … a unique laugh? Yes. Yes. I feel like you could’ve been on that show. 

[00:02:56] Claude: I know. You could’ve. You know? I missed out. They just, they didn’t know about my [00:03:00] laugh. Oh, 

[00:03:02] Aaron: my God. 

[00:03:04] Brad: Okay, I- Whoo, you made it … Claude, I wanna know. I wanna know. Getting, getting down to business here. Okay. Uh, professional dancer.

[00:03:11] Brad: Like, you’re a legit freaking dancer. Oh, one thing I forgot to mention is there’s also a feature on Scientology TV about you and your husband- 

[00:03:18] Claude: Yes … 

[00:03:18] Brad: and as professional dancers. 

[00:03:20] Claude: Yes. 

[00:03:21] Brad: How did, how did that start? How did that career start? 

[00:03:23] Claude: So I started dancing when I was nine, and because my mom wanted me to learn English.

[00:03:29] Claude: Once we moved to Arizona- Mm … in the United States, uh, my mom wanted to- At what age? Uh, I was, I was, like, eight- Okay … almost nine. 

[00:03:37] Aaron: Okay. 

[00:03:37] Claude: She said, you know, she was like, “Dance, take dance. It’ll help you, you know, speak more English, not just at school,” blah, blah, blah. And I thought, “Okay.” I had taken dance in C- in Canada for a year, and, like, I liked it.

[00:03:49] Claude: So anyway, she puts me in dance. I fall in love with it, and I just, I kept dancing all the way until 10th grade. So when I was… Okay, rewind. We move to [00:04:00] Arizona- … when I’m nine. Yeah. Then when I’m 13 my dad’s like, “Guys, we’re moving to Arkansas- 

[00:04:04] Brad: Oh … 

[00:04:05] Claude: of all places.” And I remember him specifically saying, “It won’t be as bad of a culture shock as moving from Montreal to Arizona.”

[00:04:13] Brad: Hmm. He meant it’ll be worse? 

[00:04:15] Claude: Well, no, no. 

[00:04:15] Aaron: N- not as, but no. 

[00:04:17] Claude: No. 

[00:04:18] Brad: No, he’s saying it won’t 

[00:04:19] Claude: be as bad. That’s what he 

[00:04:19] Brad: should’ve said. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. 

[00:04:21] Claude: But- 

[00:04:21] Brad: Have you been to Arkansas? 

[00:04:22] Aaron: No. 

[00:04:24] Brad: I ha- I have some lovely family in Arkansas. Love them to death. I don’t like that state 

[00:04:28] Claude: I like it now. I can appreciate it for what it is.

[00:04:32] Claude: Mm-hmm. You know, the friendliness, the Southern hospitality- Mm-hmm … the food. 

[00:04:36] Brad: Yep. 

[00:04:37] Claude: Um, there are some very cool, like, core values that people in Arkansas keep alive that I think- Yeah … a lot of the rest of the country has lost. Like family values- Mm-hmm … and marriage and kids. Um, but when I was 20, I sure didn’t give a crap about any of those things.

[00:04:53] Claude: Mm-mm. Not as a dancer either. Yeah. So at 13, we moved to Arkansas, and [00:05:00] everything’s, like, about 10 years behind. I don’t know why. I’m not talking shit. Yep. I’m just… I go to the dance studio and I was like, “What? Where are the advanced students?” Mm. And there just weren’t any. 

[00:05:11] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:05:12] Claude: Um, so I did dance there for a few years, and then got really bored and decided to play soccer.

[00:05:19] Brad: Hmm. 

[00:05:20] Claude: So I was a really fast runner, and that’s the only reason I made the team. 

[00:05:24] Brad: Wow. 

[00:05:24] Claude: So I did that for two years. My mom brings me to a concert for Janet Jackson, Velvet Rope Tour. And Jenna Dewan is on stage, and I’m just like, “Ugh, I wanna do that.” You know? And I would watch Britney Spears. Back then, music videos were super popular on MTV.

[00:05:39] Claude: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I would just always think, like, “I wanna do that. I just wanna do that.” Now, I didn’t really have the courage to move to LA till after two years of college. Plus, my dad wanted me to go to university, so I did. Um, UCA, University of Central Arkansas. And I went from a- UCA. UCA, go Bears. What?

[00:05:58] Claude: Like, I… No. [00:06:00] I tried to be in the spirit of things, but no. Um, I went from a 3.8 GPA student to 2.5. I changed my major three times, and finally I looked at my dad. I said, “Dad, like, you have to let me go to LA. I’m ready.” 

[00:06:14] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:15] Claude: Mm. And I, I just, I just wanna dance. So he said, “Find some program in LA and get into it, and I’ll drive you there.”

[00:06:24] Claude: And so I actually went to LA and auditioned for a scholarship program at the Edge Performing Arts Center, and out of about 200 kids, I was picked. Uh, f- 20 of us made it, and that was August 5th, 2002. And in September, my dad drove me cross country from Arkansas, and that was the start of my dance journey.

[00:06:46] Aaron: Wow. Yeah. Did you audition? Is that an audition? 

[00:06:48] Claude: Like you did a physical dance? The, for the scholarship? Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yes. It w- it’s an audition. They, I think we did, like, everything: ballet, jazz, they wanna see your hip hop, and then they pick, like, 20 students [00:07:00] to basically train for about 35 to 40 hours a week- Mm-hmm

[00:07:03] Claude: for a year. 

[00:07:04] Brad: Oh. 

[00:07:04] Claude: And you’re not allowed to work professionally during that time. 

[00:07:07] Brad: Oh. Oh. 

[00:07:07] Claude: You’re, you’re just training, learn- you know, undoing all the… Go ahead, sorry. 

[00:07:13] Brad: So it’s like an apprenticeship, basically. 

[00:07:14] Claude: Yeah? Yeah. K- 

[00:07:15] Brad: yeah. Exactly. Yeah, like apprenticing to be a professional dancer. 

[00:07:18] Claude: Yeah. They’re y- they’re bringing in, like, professionals to teach you about, you know, audition etiquette, and headshots, and agents, and things like that.

[00:07:26] Claude: So you’re learning about the business and also training, getting rid of any, like, weird habits you learned at your local dance studio, and they’re just fine-tuning you as a dancer. 

[00:07:35] Brad: Wow. 

[00:07:35] Claude: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:07:37] Brad: So I, I have a kinda like question about being a… So is, is the right term… Okay, I have the term in my head of when you see, like, a main performer on a stage, and then there’s the people behind them dancing.

[00:07:51] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:07:51] Brad: What are the people behind them called? Like, what’s, uh, are- A 

[00:07:54] Claude: backup dancer? 

[00:07:54] Brad: Backup dancer. Yeah. Is that the actual term? 

[00:07:56] Claude: Yes. 

[00:07:56] Brad: That I had a consideration. I was like, “Is that, like, a derogatory thing?” No. But that’s just the [00:08:00] actual technical term. Yes. Backup dancer. 

[00:08:01] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:08:01] Brad: Is it wanted… Like, I, I’ve, I’ve always wondered this.

[00:08:04] Brad: Is it wanted that they are, like, catch your eye, or that they kind of just blend in and you don’t super notice them? 

[00:08:11] Claude: That’s a really good question. 

[00:08:13] Brad: Thank you. 

[00:08:14] Claude: So,

[00:08:18] Claude: so- I think every artist is different. Mm. They hire dancers for different reasons, where, like, I think, like, if you think of a Florence + The Machine and the performance she would put on would be dramatic and, like, yes, catch your eye and, um, stand out. 

[00:08:37] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:08:37] Claude: Where I think most people, they don’t want you to stand out too much.

[00:08:42] Claude: You don’t ever wanna take attention away from the main- The main… Mm-hmm … singer. 

[00:08:47] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:08:48] Claude: Yeah. So, you know, they do that with… It, it just depends. Like, if you’re dancing for a male artist, you’re gonna have a little more freedom. You’re probably gonna wear something sexier. 

[00:08:59] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:08:59] Claude: If you’re [00:09:00] dancing for a female artist, you– maybe not.

[00:09:02] Claude: But it also depends on the artist herself, of how comfortable she is with, you know, how much attention are the dancers pulling. Mm. But, you know, no one’s going to see the dancers anyways. Like, you’re going to see the artist. Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:17] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:09:17] Claude: But there are some people who… I have been, I have not booked jobs because, “Oh, you’re…”

[00:09:25] Claude: This is so weird to say, but, “You’re too hot,” or, “You’re too pretty,” or, “You look too much like her.” Okay. 

[00:09:32] Brad: Oh, you look too much like the artist. 

[00:09:33] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:09:33] Brad: And they’re like, “They’re gonna think, they’re gonna think 

[00:09:35] Claude: you’re her.” 

[00:09:35] Brad: Yes. 

[00:09:36] Claude: Or audition notices that you get, we would get, you get, like, an email, and there’s a breakdown of what to wear, you know, what they’re looking for.

[00:09:45] Claude: And I remember one that specifically said, like, “Do not go being too showy.” 

[00:09:53] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:53] Claude: You know, “Tone yourself down or you just won’t book the job.” So you, you really never know. 

[00:09:59] Brad: That’s so [00:10:00] interesting. 

[00:10:00] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:10:01] Brad: Yeah, but I guess you’re looking for a certain… They have, like, a certain mock-up in mind of how they want it to come across.

[00:10:05] Claude: E- exactly. 

[00:10:06] Brad: Sometimes it’s gotta be boom, and then other times more muted. 

[00:10:08] Claude: Yeah, and sometimes it’s down to, “We want four blondes. We want four brunettes. We want two blondes, uh, two Black girls, or two ethnic, two not.” You know, or curvy, not curvy. I mean, they’re looking at everything. Mm-hmm. Height, your body, all of that.

[00:10:22] Brad: Wow. 

[00:10:23] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:10:24] Brad: And as, as a young lady growing up, were you pretty tame- 

[00:10:29] Claude: Yes … 

[00:10:30] Brad: as, as a kid? 

[00:10:30] Claude: Yeah. Yes. Yes. I followed all of the rules. I look at my mom when she wants to complain about anything. I go, “Mom, literally I was the perfect child.” “I gave you nothing to worry about.” “I didn’t do drugs. I didn’t drink. I didn’t sneak out.

[00:10:45] Claude: I didn’t do weird things with boys.” Like, I was, I was dancing at the studio or I was doing my homework. 

[00:10:51] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:10:52] Claude: Yeah. All the way until, like y- college I lived at the dorm, but I was still very modest. 

[00:10:59] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:10:59] Claude: [00:11:00] Yeah. 

[00:11:00] Brad: Did that change at any point in your life? 

[00:11:02] Claude: Um, not really. Even when I set out to dance, I think I had, like, one crazy bout of three months when I went on my first tour and I was like, “Oh, there’s, like, no rules out here on the road.”

[00:11:15] Claude: And but even then it was, it was pretty tame. I just allowed myself to, like… I think I got drunk, but I still never… I did a show in Vegas for a year. I’ve never seen cocaine. I’ve never seen… I’ve- Oh, you never 

[00:11:28] Aaron: s- seen it? Yeah. 

[00:11:28] Claude: Never even seen it. 

[00:11:29] Aaron: Oh, wow. I- Even as a dancer, you’re hanging out with the dancers- 

[00:11:32] Claude: Correct

[00:11:32] Aaron: but you’re never hang out, you hang 

[00:11:33] Claude: out with them. Never. 

[00:11:33] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:11:35] Claude: My friends in Vegas actually just stopped asking me to go anywhere with them because they knew that, A, I wouldn’t participate or they’d have to, like, hide it from me. And I remember coming home from the club one night, and they’re like, “Oh yeah, we were doing cocaine, like, under the table on this guy’s shoe.”

[00:11:52] Claude: And I’m like, “No you weren’t.” Like, I- first of all, I didn’t see it. I had no idea it was going on. It was a- Oh, 

[00:11:58] Brad: you were there. 

[00:11:59] Claude: I was [00:12:00] freaking there. I was never, like, offered it either. Yeah. Wow. Which I just think is so interesting. 

[00:12:07] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:07] Claude: Like, really 18 years in the business as, as a dancer. 

[00:12:12] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:12] Claude: Um, ne- never.

[00:12:15] Aaron: And w- that’s crazy. I mean, I- Yeah … I mean, that’s like the opposite of what you would expect, I guess. Yes. Yeah, 

[00:12:21] Claude: totally. Yeah. 

[00:12:21] Aaron: Is it… W- why do you think that is? Like, you just didn’t go out with these guys very often? Or, or what, what… 

[00:12:28] Claude: How? I think that, like, I was in it. I, I did- Yeah … I didn’t go out a lot- Mm-hmm

[00:12:33] Claude: I will say. There wasn’t a lot of, like, partying for me as a dancer. Like, schmoozing and going out and, like, networking was just the bane of my existence. Mm-hmm. I just wanted to work- Mm-hmm … make connections on set. But- You know, I still was in it, and I also dated a very famous actor when I was 22, Val Kilmer, who’s now gone.

[00:12:58] Brad: No . 

[00:12:58] Claude: Yeah. [00:13:00] Wow. Um, I did, I was a dancer in a musical called The Ten Commandments, and he played Moses. 

[00:13:04] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:13:04] Claude: And, um- That’s my 

[00:13:05] Aaron: brother. 

[00:13:06] Claude: Huh? 

[00:13:06] Aaron: My biblical brother. 

[00:13:07] Claude: Your, your biblical brother, Aaron. I am, I am 

[00:13:09] Aaron: the older brother- 

[00:13:09] Claude: That’s right … 

[00:13:10] Aaron: the more wise one. 

[00:13:11] Claude: That’s right. Yes, okay. Aaron wa- Like- 

[00:13:13] Aaron: More wise than Moses?

[00:13:14] Claude: Absolutely. Oh, yeah. 

[00:13:14] Aaron: Absolutely. I’m the teacher. 

[00:13:15] Claude: That’s right. 

[00:13:16] Aaron: Taught him everything he knows. 

[00:13:17] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:13:18] Aaron: So, okay. Sorry, continue. 

[00:13:18] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:13:20] Brad: Taught Val Kilmer everything he knows. 

[00:13:22] Claude: Like, I met, I’ve been around so many, like, Hollywood things and gone to events with him and, like, gatherings, and I just go, “Wow,” like, “How did I never…

[00:13:35] Claude: How did I miss all that?” 

[00:13:37] Brad: Mm. 

[00:13:37] Claude: Just miss, like, the crazy drugs and drinking and all… And I, I don’t know. I just, I think it has something to do obviously with me and just, um, I think ethics is a big thing. And, you know, you bring that with you from past lives, and I just landed here this time with some sort of crazy-ass moral code and [00:14:00] ethics.

[00:14:00] Claude: Mm-hmm. And I just, like, had a bubble around me that was just literally keeping me shielded from all of that crap. Wow. To the point where I’m so naive, like I hear things people did, and I’m like, even my husband, his story. Yeah. I’m like, “You did what?” “You’re 13 at the club in Chicago doing LSD? What 

[00:14:19] Brad: are you…

[00:14:19] Brad: What?” 

[00:14:20] Claude: Me, while I’m at home like, two plus five. No, not in, not at 13, but what? It shocks me. 

[00:14:27] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:14:28] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:14:29] Aaron: Huh. And did you have- Yeah … uh, any sort of faith, um, in your home, like any religion? 

[00:14:34] Claude: No. We were brought up Catholic. 

[00:14:38] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:39] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:14:39] Claude: You know, we did all the first communion things, but no. There- Like once- 

[00:14:45] Aaron: Did you ever- Once in your life.

[00:14:45] Claude: That’s right. Like, you go to church 

[00:14:46] Aaron: once. 

[00:14:46] Claude: Uh, exactly. You went to church once. 

[00:14:47] Brad: Okay. Yeah. Did you ever do a confessional, like Catholic confessional? 

[00:14:51] Claude: I, I did do a, a confessional. 

[00:14:52] Brad: You did? 

[00:14:53] Claude: Yes. 

[00:14:53] Brad: How was that? 

[00:14:54] Claude: It was weird- Yeah … ’cause it was on a couch. With- Huh? Yeah. Wait, what? You know how they [00:15:00] talk about like, there, it was on a couch with, I’m assuming, the priest.

[00:15:04] Claude: Like, I didn’t really know. It wasn’t like in one of those, like- 

[00:15:07] Brad: It’s not like in a box- Those screen thing … where you go in and there’s like 

[00:15:09] Claude: a screen? 

[00:15:09] Brad: No. 

[00:15:10] Claude: No. 

[00:15:10] Brad: Oh, that’s how I assumed they did- 

[00:15:11] Claude: No. No. 

[00:15:12] Brad: Can you just g- like, what- 

[00:15:14] Claude: Like, I, like, it was literally, I just remember walking into the room, and there was a couch over here against this wall.

[00:15:19] Claude: Mm-hmm. And the priest was sitting there, and, and I just sat down, and I don’t even remember what I confessed. Like, what did I have to confess? Mm-hmm. Like I said, I’m a saint. 

[00:15:27] Brad: Like you said. Of course. Of course you are. Oh, geez. But you just, you just sat down in the same room and you’re like, “Here’s what I did, blah, blah, blah, blah, 

[00:15:33] Claude: blah.”

[00:15:33] Claude: Yes. 

[00:15:34] Brad: Oh. 

[00:15:34] Claude: Yeah. It was so freaking weird. And I have been l- spir- like a spiritual, like, like spiritually seeking something- Mm … my whole life. Wha- what is this? I even took religion in college just because I was very curious, like, what are we? What is it? What is God? What, what is all of it? Mm-hmm. Um, and, and nothing ever felt quite right to me.

[00:15:55] Claude: I had a lot of Mormon friends in Arizona. Mm. I would go to Mormon church with them and [00:16:00] be like, “Mm, this f- this feels weird.” Even as a 13-year-old, it just didn’t hit. Mm-hmm. And then once in Arkansas, like Southern Baptist, Southern Meth- Methodist, I had a lot of Black friends. I would go to, like, Black churches.

[00:16:13] Claude: Mm. And just kind of leave being like, “No, that’s not it.” 

[00:16:16] Brad: Mm-hmm. “

[00:16:16] Claude: It’s not it for me.” 

[00:16:17] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:16:18] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:16:19] Brad: Wow. 

[00:16:20] Claude: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:21] Brad: And then? 

[00:16:23] Claude: Well, then I- So 

[00:16:24] Brad: I’m sorry. I’m just like, okay, yeah. Well- And obviously you found something. 

[00:16:29] Claude: Yes. So when I met Noah, I was 32. Yeah. So I had already lived a, a pretty long life. You know, I still hadn’t found anything.

[00:16:39] Claude: Mm-hmm. Just kind of out there on my own. Um, doing- Were you- Doing okay … 

[00:16:43] Brad: were you, were you still looking, like, at that, like, were you still kind of like, ah, something like that? 

[00:16:46] Claude: Um, I, yeah, but not necessarily religion, because there was a point where then- Yeah … all of a sudden, like, YouTube’s popular, Instagram is out, and you’ve got all these gurus that are saying this, saying [00:17:00] that.

[00:17:00] Claude: And so I’m pay- you know, I like to just, I did, like to get information from everywhere. Like, can I, how much can I know, and what makes sense, and what doesn’t? And take a little bit from here, and take a little bit from there. 

[00:17:11] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:12] Claude: And I, and then I met, and then I met Noah. 

[00:17:18] Aaron: Yeah, let’s get into that. He was, he was obnoxious.

[00:17:20] Aaron: There’s nothing. No, go. 

[00:17:23] Claude: He, he was. He do- Well, no. He, I, I was all of a sudden very jealous. 

[00:17:29] Aaron: Huh. 

[00:17:30] Claude: Very, like, psychotically jealous. 

[00:17:34] Aaron: Hmm. 

[00:17:34] Claude: Now, I had felt those feelings when I was 16 with my first boyfriend, Adam, bless his heart. But I always thought, “Oh, I’m 16. I’m young. Like, of course I’m jealous.” I don’t know.

[00:17:46] Claude: Also, I’m a Scorpio, which whatever, but our most negative trait, as they say, is jealousy and possessiveness. 

[00:17:54] Aaron: Hmm. 

[00:17:54] Claude: So- 

[00:17:55] Aaron: It’s why he got the- Depending on the, because the stars- It’s why he got the claws and the stinger … and the moons were at a certain position, 

[00:17:59] Claude: and that- That’s right … 

[00:17:59] Aaron: brings the [00:18:00] jealousy. 

[00:18:00] Claude: Exactly.

[00:18:01] Aaron: Yes. 

[00:18:02] Claude: Stop. But it, yeah. Like, when you say it like that, it sounds so dumb. 

[00:18:07] Aaron: No, but listen. When I found out it was based on the stars and the moon, I was like, “I can’t bel- Like, no way.” I, I, I was like, “This is…” That was my thing. I’m like, “Man, the cancer, the thing, the this,” and- 

[00:18:18] Claude: Yeah … 

[00:18:18] Aaron: and then I found out, like, oh, it’s based on where the moon was that day.

[00:18:23] Claude: Yeah, but wait, before you knock that. 

[00:18:25] Aaron: No, no. Go, hey. The, the ti- It’s so, it is, it is powerful because it changes the tides. 

[00:18:29] Claude: It changes the tides. You know that, right? But also- Sure. Sure … before there were a bazillion women on planet Earth- Yeah … our cycles are synced to the moon cycle. 

[00:18:37] Brad: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:18:39] Claude: So we can’t really knock down- 

[00:18:41] Brad: So wait, before there’s a bil- What?

[00:18:43] Claude: Like, when there were less people on Earth. Yeah, yeah. ‘Cause if you notice, like, when you put women in the same environment- 

[00:18:48] Brad: They 

[00:18:48] Claude: sync … the cycles sync. 

[00:18:50] Brad: Yep. Really? 

[00:18:51] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:18:51] Brad: Wait, you didn’t know this? 

[00:18:52] Aaron: No. 

[00:18:53] Claude: Oh, dude. Like, it’s bananas. Yeah. It makes absolutely no sense. 

[00:18:56] Brad: Like me having my wife and two daughters, like, when [00:19:00] they’re, like, teenage and, like, get into, like, menstruation, I’m fucked.

[00:19:03] Aaron: Well, ’cause they do it at the same time? 

[00:19:04] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:19:04] Aaron: Well, I don’t know. My, my daughters haven’t been to that yet, but- 

[00:19:07] Brad: Oh, yeah. You’re more fucked … 

[00:19:08] Aaron: so, so, so- 

[00:19:12] Claude: Yeah, I know 

[00:19:12] Aaron: Like a group, so you’re saying like let’s say people are living out on a farm or something, and there’s like six women, they’re all gonna have their cycles around the same time?

[00:19:18] Claude: Correct. 

[00:19:19] Aaron: Oh. 

[00:19:20] Claude: Yes. 

[00:19:20] Aaron: And because that, because it, it syncs with the moon. 

[00:19:23] Claude: Well, I don’t know if anymore we are syncing with the moon, but that’s what I’m saying. ‘Cause of all the 

[00:19:26] Aaron: hormones and stuff you think, right? 

[00:19:27] Claude: Well, and there’s just too many of us now. Okay. So it’s like if you go back to when there were less women- Yeah

[00:19:32] Claude: on the planet- 

[00:19:33] Aaron: Mm … 

[00:19:34] Claude: it, it wa- we’re, we are supposed to be synced to the moon, but now you’ve got like digital and phones and all this other sh- Mm, 

[00:19:42] Aaron: the lights everywhere. 

[00:19:43] Claude: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah … everything. Cell phones and everything’s interrupting everything. So it’s not- Wow … going as naturally. But- 

[00:19:49] Aaron: I’ll have to check that.

[00:19:50] Aaron: I, I, I mean, I’m, I’m hearing it from you for the first time. 

[00:19:53] Claude: That’s 

[00:19:53] Aaron: cool. Could be, I mean, hey. 

[00:19:54] Brad: Uh, yeah. It’s, well, it’s for sure a datum that like, my, my understanding of [00:20:00] it from like, weirdly I’ve read some about this in, uh, high school. I don’t know how that was the case. Maybe biology or something. But the number of days between menstrual cycles does still, from my understanding, still for most women, follow like moon cycles.

[00:20:14] Brad: Yeah. Like it’s 28 days or something like that. 28, yeah. Like it’s not exactly 30 days. Okay, fine. I got 

[00:20:17] Claude: you. 

[00:20:17] Brad: I got it. Yeah. That’s my understanding of it. 

[00:20:19] Claude: Yeah. Thank you. Well- No, it is … 

[00:20:20] Aaron: thank you. So, hey, Scorpio. So- Hey, the moon, that- Yeah … maybe if we took off all the lights, we’d behave more according to the moon.

[00:20:25] Claude: Maybe. You know- Right? 

[00:20:26] Aaron: If I want. 

[00:20:28] Claude: I’m just saying, it’s some pretty powerful stuff. Okay, okay. Like, who knows? Yeah, yeah. And when I meet people that- Mm-hmm … I can usually say like, “Oh, like y- you, they’re a Libra,” or something like that. Like, there are some traits- Yeah … that do make sense- Sure … for most people. So I always boiled it down to I’m a Scorpio, sorry, I’m psycho, this is it.

[00:20:46] Claude: Mm-hmm. I’m like the best of your time, and I’m also the worst, deal with it. And also for me, it’s like I, I didn’t wanna feel those ways either. So I broke, you know, my, my boyfriend and I break up when I’m 16, a- and I [00:21:00] dated in between then, and, but never really got this jealous feeling until I met Noah. 

[00:21:07] Aaron: Mm.

[00:21:08] Claude: And it kind of crept up out of nowhere and, you know, the weekend- But you 

[00:21:11] Aaron: were jealous after you started dating him or before you started dating him? 

[00:21:14] Claude: No, no, no, like after I started dating him. Okay, okay. ‘Cause before I was alone, like what do I have- 

[00:21:18] Aaron: No, I was just checking. 

[00:21:19] Claude: I- I don’t know … 

[00:21:20] Aaron: listen. 

[00:21:20] Claude: Okay. No, it was like he triggered, right, those jealous feelings.

[00:21:25] Claude: Mm. And first of all- Oh … my husband is, like, the most, he, he’s very talkative, he loves people, he’s outgoing- Yeah … he’s charming. Girls would just be like, “Hey, Noah. Hey, Daddy. Hey, handsome.” Mm-hmm. Like, text like, “Hey, handsome,” and I’d be like, “Why is this happening?” Like, can you tell them that we’re dating now and they can’t just text you at 1:00 AM like, “Hey, Daddy.”

[00:21:46] Claude: Like, no. Why are we doing that? Um, so, you know, in the beginning you, I… One of Scorpio’s also, we, we can hide our feelings very well. So we’ll be going through, [00:22:00] like, absolute hell internally, but outside we’re like, “Hi,” and we look cool as a cucumber. Nobody would ever know. 

[00:22:05] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:22:05] Claude: Yeah. But then there comes a day where we can no longer keep that in, and we just explode.

[00:22:10] Claude: Mm-hmm. So I think there was a moment where something happened, and I just lost it. And then it was a continuation of, like, little arguments about, you know, this or that, or that girl this, and whatever. Mm. And eventually he showed me the eight dyna- or yeah, the eight dynamics. Like, “I wanna show you something,” the eight dynamics, and he kind of explained it to me.

[00:22:32] Claude: I was like, “Oh, that makes sense. Okay, cool.” And he slowly introduced me to some Scientology principles that way, and then eventually he said, “Okay, I think you should go in the church and talk to someone- 

[00:22:43] Brad: Mm … 

[00:22:44] Claude: after a few too many jealous bouts.” And I did, and I told him, I go, “Listen, I’ve gone to many churches.

[00:22:51] Claude: Mm-hmm. If I feel weird, I’m leaving.” 

[00:22:53] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:54] Claude: He’s like, “Okay, fine.” And I walked in. He introduced me to, you know, Heather, who was there, and [00:23:00] she had me read something about the reactive mind after I told her what I was going through with jealousy and all that. And as soon as I read that, I was like, “Oh, my gosh.

[00:23:09] Claude: There is an answer for this problem that I have that I can’t control, and I’m gonna kill it.” 

[00:23:17] Brad: Mm. Wow. 

[00:23:17] Claude: I’m gonna get rid of this thing, and it w- I think the next week I had just got, got the bridge from clear, I mean, sorry, from purif to clear. 

[00:23:28] Aaron: Yeah. Where was this? 

[00:23:30] Claude: LA Org. 

[00:23:30] Aaron: Okay. 

[00:23:32] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:23:33] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:23:33] Claude: It was finally, like, h- 16 years later, there’s an answer for why I experience these, you know, very intrusive, “I will kill you and her,” thoughts.

[00:23:44] Claude: Like- Yeah … what is going on? 

[00:23:46] Brad: And, and what, if you recall, like, what, what did she show you or where could somebody find, like, kind of the data that 

[00:23:52] Claude: she showed you? That’s in Dianetics. Yeah. In the Dianetics book. 

[00:23:54] Brad: Yeah. That’s- Did she show you, like, a, like an, or like an excerpted thing? An excerpt. 

[00:23:58] Claude: Or 

[00:23:58] Brad: did she just cr- yeah.

[00:23:59] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:23:59] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:23:59] Claude: [00:24:00] About the reactive mind specifically, what it is and, and as soon as I read it I thought, “Oh.” This is it. Yep. It was almost like I was healed in that moment, you know, from just like- Wow … all this uncertainty and not knowing why, and I think so many people wonder, like, “Why am I like this? Why do I have anxiety?

[00:24:20] Claude: Why do I feel depressed? Why? Why, why, why?” And then you read Dianetics, and he literally tells you, LRH the author- Mm … why. 

[00:24:30] Brad: Mm. 

[00:24:30] Claude: And it’s one thing. It’s not like- That’s right … it’s this and it’s this and it’s this, and it could be that, could also be this. No, it’s this. 

[00:24:38] Brad: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:39] Claude: And the certainty is so spot on that you just go, “Okay.”

[00:24:43] Brad: And the this, this, this, those other seeming things that are the, the reasons why, those are actually just symptoms of- Correct … the one thing. 

[00:24:50] Claude: Correct. 

[00:24:51] Brad: The reactive mind. 

[00:24:51] Claude: Correct. Yeah. People, a lot of times, and I did this too, you blame y- your upbringing. Your bu- you blame- Oh, totally … your parents. [00:25:00] But what’s different with this is nobody…

[00:25:01] Claude: My mom wasn’t jealous, my dad wasn’t jealous, I didn’t notice anyone, you know? But then you go, “Okay, well, was it because I was invalidated so many times, and it… Was it because blah and my parents, my par…” It has nothing to do with your parents, and the beautiful thing about that is, is there is no one else around you.

[00:25:19] Claude: There’s nothing else you need to, like, fix. You just need to address you and your reactive mind. There is nothing else you have to try to solve, like your parents. Mm-hmm. Like, “Well, if I could just get my mom to be more like this.” Mm-mm. 

[00:25:34] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:25:34] Claude: Mm-mm. It’s you. 

[00:25:36] Aaron: That’s right. 

[00:25:37] Brad: That’s so 

[00:25:38] Aaron: great. You know, I, I, I had a, a very similar experience, uh, when what you said is, like, you just heard about it, you read about it, and, like, immediately something changed.

[00:25:47] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:25:48] Aaron: I had the same experience where, uh, I was invited right after the personality test, um, at Church of Scientology in Tampa, and the guy said, like, I was unhappy in this, and he’s like, “Well, would you like [00:26:00] to change it,” or something, and I was like- Huh? 

[00:26:03] Claude: Mm. 

[00:26:04] Aaron: That’s not, like, it’s not possible. 

[00:26:06] Claude: Mm. Wow. 

[00:26:07] Aaron: And just the idea that it could be changed or that it should be changed- Yes

[00:26:13] Aaron: even that it’s possible, I’m like, nobody ever said like, “Well, you could be happy.” 

[00:26:18] Claude: Yeah. Wow. “You 

[00:26:19] could 

[00:26:19] Aaron: do that.” 

[00:26:20] Claude: Wow. 

[00:26:21] Aaron: And that alone, before I even started reading, I was like, “I already feel better.” 

[00:26:25] Brad: Y- 

[00:26:25] Claude: that- 

[00:26:26] Brad: Yes … 

[00:26:26] Aaron: yep And then it’s like, now you have a new attitude and you’re going at it, and you’re now reading and learning to go and fix something.

[00:26:31] Aaron: But I, again, same experience, like just- Yeah … just the idea you could do something about it was like, boom, so freeing. Which is again, why we call- Mm-hmm … this podcast Don’t Do Nothing. Mm-hmm. ‘Cause I feel like always something can be done. 

[00:26:41] Claude: Yes. 

[00:26:41] Aaron: And in the state of like giving up is where, where, where a lot of people are, unfortunately.

[00:26:45] Aaron: That’s right. 

[00:26:45] Claude: I 

[00:26:46] Brad: know. Yeah. I know. ‘Cause they think there’s nothing that you can do about anything. 

[00:26:49] Claude: Yeah. Yeah. Or, like, thinking the only thing that there is to do about it is very, like, non-survival things, like medication- Yep … or [00:27:00] taking your own life. Yep. You know, I mean, it gets that dark for some people- Yep, yep

[00:27:04] Claude: and they think this is the solution. 

[00:27:06] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:07] Claude: Like, fuck, 

[00:27:07] Aaron: man. That’s, yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Okay, so you, so good. You were in, in Los Angeles. 

[00:27:12] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:27:13] Aaron: Let’s go. 

[00:27:13] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:27:14] Aaron: Let’s- So you, you would tackle that thing. 

[00:27:15] Claude: That’s right. Nine 

[00:27:16] Aaron: months. And it was safe. I mean, you were, Noah’s a Scientologist already at this point? 

[00:27:19] Claude: Yes. 

[00:27:19] Aaron: Okay.

[00:27:20] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:27:20] Brad: Mm. 

[00:27:21] Claude: He, his dad put, like, introduced them to Scientology when he was 14, so he had been in and out of it for a while. 

[00:27:29] Aaron: Yeah. And so how did that go? Like, what, what happened for you? Like, what was your experience starting? 

[00:27:36] Claude: So from reading that, I did the Dianetics seminar, and loved, you know, you learn a little bit more about the reactive mind, and you learn a little bit more about the process that you do to get rid of it, and I loved it.

[00:27:51] Claude: I loved getting to go back and, and, and, you know, revisit these incidences that had been traumatic for [00:28:00] me- Mm … and have them turn into a memory that I could simply look back on and go, “Oh, that happened,” as opposed to feel, feeling this, uh, I don’t know, deep emotion about it. Mm. It was like, “Oh, that’s just a memory now.

[00:28:17] Claude: It, it no longer has this control over me- 

[00:28:20] Aaron: Wow … 

[00:28:21] Claude: and my emotions.” And then, of course, I said, “Well, I love all of this, you know, but is there, like, a super speedy way to do this?” Like, can we, can we speed this up? Because, yeah. Um, so of course then I was introduced to The Bridge. 

[00:28:38] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:28:39] Claude: And that’s where you start with the purif and detoxing the body, and then you move up to the state of clear, which is getting rid of the reactive mind.

[00:28:49] Claude: And I just spent the next nine months pretty much dedicating most of my time to getting that done. 

[00:28:56] Brad: Yeah. Wow. 

[00:28:56] Claude: Yeah. And then it was ju- I… Just so [00:29:00] everybody knows, I was not ever, ever, ever jealous again. 

[00:29:04] Brad: Wow. 

[00:29:05] Claude: Because you also, there’s a sense of responsibility that you gain as you go up the bridge of I’m also part of the equation.

[00:29:16] Claude: Like, my fear was always that he would cheat on me. I was like, “All men are the same. They all cheat. They’re all horrible. I might as well just, like, you know, allow it to happen so it doesn’t crush me when it does.” Like a very- Oh. … irrational way of thinking. Oh, wow. Yeah. So 

[00:29:29] Aaron: it’s a very usual way of thinking, by the way.

[00:29:31] Aaron: Yeah. I think it’s very common in 

[00:29:33] Claude: women. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. In, in women, yeah. So, um, but you learn that, well, I play a part in that, too. You know, a lot of people wanna take the victim stance of, “Oh, he did this to me, and men are this,” and… But you’re, you’re also part of that scene- Mm-hmm … that situation. Yeah. And I was able to go, “Okay, well, if someone were to do that to me, A, they would hurt themselves more than anybody because they’d be [00:30:00] going against probably their own moral code, the moral code that we have in our relationship, and, and they would be hurting themselves more.”

[00:30:07] Claude: Right. “And also I would look at myself and be like, ‘What did I do to create that situation, and how can I not recreate it again?’” 

[00:30:16] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:16] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:30:16] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:30:17] Aaron: I, I, I wanna get into this a little bit. Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:19] Claude: Yeah, do it. 

[00:30:19] Aaron: Because I, I will say, I, I think there’s a disagreement, this, like, thing where, “What do you mean the woman?

[00:30:27] Aaron: It was the guy.” Like, uh, same way because… But I was, I was there, too. When, when something like that happened to me, I was like, “I’ve been wronged,” da, this. And I was able to find out what happened. I really look at it. So I wanna kinda detail that. 

[00:30:39] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:30:40] Aaron: Like- It happened before to you, you said, right? Like, you had another boyfriend and he cheated or no?

[00:30:46] Claude: I actually, yes, in college I did. 

[00:30:48] Aaron: Right. 

[00:30:48] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:30:49] Aaron: Did you ever look back and, uh, like look at that and see what happened and why or anything like that, or no? 

[00:30:54] Claude: Not then. No, no. Okay. No, I didn’t. 

[00:30:56] Aaron: Okay. 

[00:30:56] Claude: No. 

[00:30:57] Aaron: So could you kinda maybe explain what would it be, like let’s [00:31:00] say, maybe not with Noah, but like in a relationship, let’s say, what could it be that a woman did to like bring it on?

[00:31:06] Aaron: Like, ’cause I’m just saying, like some people will hear that and be like, “No way.” Like, I just, I just know that is a thing where people will say, “Hell no.” 

[00:31:14] Claude: Yeah. “

[00:31:14] Aaron: Men are garbage.” No. Whatever. So how is that possible? 

[00:31:19] Claude: It could be that you are looking in his phone behind his back. Like, that’s something you wouldn’t want done to you.

[00:31:27] Claude: Uh-huh. It’s not optimal, it’s not survival. It could be that you’re flirting with some dude at Starbucks, and most people think that that’s harmless. “Well, I just, you know, had a cute little convers-” Would you want it done to you? 

[00:31:40] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:40] Claude: Mm-hmm. And it could be that you tell little tiny lies- 

[00:31:44] Brad: Mm … 

[00:31:45] Claude: that add up.

[00:31:46] Claude: There’s always some responsibility to take for that situation to have happened in your life. And it could be that you weren’t honest about something with the [00:32:00] guy. It could be that you looked at something on Instagram that you shouldn’t have looked at. 

[00:32:05] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:05] Claude: It could be anything that you did, like sort of, maybe not like to him, but in that area that you wouldn’t want done to you.

[00:32:14] Brad: Mm. 

[00:32:14] Claude: Very small things. Um, I’m trying to think of anything else. Also, I feel like thoughts are senior to everything. 

[00:32:25] Brad: Mm. Totally. 

[00:32:26] Claude: So if you’re constantly thinking, “Guys are , guys are , guys are , they all cheat,” well then that’s gonna be the reality you create. Mm. 

[00:32:36] Brad: Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. 

[00:32:37] Claude: People would constantly say, “It’s impossible to find anyone in LA, especially in the dance world.”

[00:32:43] Claude: Yeah. “It’s impossible. You can’t.” Well, you’re right. You’re creating that. 

[00:32:47] Brad: Yep. 

[00:32:48] Claude: You’re right. Yeah. You’re good. My ex-boyfriend for f- of four years was a dancer. My husband of now tw- well, we’ve been married eight, but together 12, is a dancer. 

[00:32:57] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:32:58] Claude: I was also told, “You [00:33:00] will, probably won’t make it in the industry for one or two years.”

[00:33:03] Claude: I booked my first job after three weeks because I refused to make that my reality. Mm-hmm. So a lot of it can be little transgressions that you do against- Mm … your partner that add up, or it can just be the thoughts that you’re having that are gonna create that reality. You know how they say, like, the more you fear something- 

[00:33:22] Brad: Yeah, it can happen.

[00:33:22] Brad: Yeah. If somebody’s like, “I don’t wanna get in a car accident, I don’t wanna get in a car accident,” like- Yeah … that’s the guy who’s getting in a car accident. 

[00:33:27] Claude: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:33:28] Brad: For sure, he’s gonna figure it out. Totally. 

[00:33:29] Aaron: Well, I 

[00:33:29] Claude: think 

[00:33:30] Aaron: also what’s crazy about this, and this is a part that I think some people might miss, is if you’re thinking that, the person that you accept into your life- 

[00:33:39] Claude: Yes

[00:33:39] Aaron: is the person who’s going to do it. 

[00:33:41] Claude: Correct. ‘

[00:33:42] Aaron: Cause I have seen people that go, “I can’t find a…” And I, and I literally have seen, like, they were in a scene where a guy, an honest, good dude, was like trying to get with this girl, and she’s like, “Oh no, that guy’s terrible.” But it was a honest guy, this, never cheat, et cetera.

[00:33:56] Aaron: And the next week is with a total d-bag. 

[00:33:59] Claude: Yep. [00:34:00] 

[00:34:00] Aaron: And then they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I can’t believe he cheated on me.” And then I go, “Well, look what- Yeah … your choices.” Yeah. 

[00:34:05] Claude: Right. 

[00:34:06] Aaron: Your cho- y- there are a lot of people, and a lot of people cheat- Yeah … a lot of people don’t cheat. That’s right. So it’s kinda like that’s one thing where no matter what- Yeah

[00:34:13] Aaron: that aspect, you accepted that into your life. Mm-hmm. That, if anything else, if you could say, if someone says that you’re such a victim that once you’re in a relationship, that’s it, it’s not your responsibility, well, you still picked the guy. 

[00:34:24] Claude: That- 

[00:34:24] Aaron: Regardless. Oh, yeah, yeah. That- That, that part, no one can deny that.

[00:34:26] Claude: Yeah. I had, I had a, uh, people say, “Oh, you’re so, so lucky.” They see, like, what kind of a great man Noah is. I’m like, “Yeah, lucky? Like, do you understand, like, how clean I have been in this area?” Yeah. I have never cheated on anyone. I’ve always had the utmost integrity for myself and for the other person. So, uh, and I work on myself.

[00:34:51] Claude: There i- this is not luck. I attracted someone that, like- Reflected me as a being Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I did [00:35:00] think for a long time I would never find anyone as loyal as me and this and that. But as I got older, you know, I started changing my thoughts about that- Mm-hmm … a lot. And then here comes Noah, and he is a very loyal, he has very great values around relationships.

[00:35:16] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:35:17] Claude: And also I had- 

[00:35:17] Aaron: Now. 

[00:35:18] Claude: Oh, yes? 

[00:35:19] Aaron: N- no, now. He has great values about relationships 

[00:35:21] Claude: now. Oh, yeah, now. 

[00:35:22] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:35:23] Claude: But it’s crazy because we had, we had some run-ins. 

[00:35:26] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:35:27] Claude: Like four years before we started dating, we had some run-ins, but Okay, I can say like he wasn’t the man that was ready to like have me in his life- Mm-hmm

[00:35:35] Claude: but probably me to- He wasn’t 

[00:35:38] Aaron: ready for you. He wasn’t. Yeah. 

[00:35:38] Claude: But like two months after he had his DUI, stopped smoking, went back to the church, and like really said, “Okay, I’m doing this,” that’s when we ran into each other and, and it was like, “Okay, now you are like someone I can…” ‘Cause the Noah before- 

[00:35:55] Aaron: Mm-hmm

[00:35:55] Claude: trust me, trust and believe, I would’ve never, ever, ever- Mm-hmm … looked that way. [00:36:00] The drinking and the v- like- Right … the, you know, I’m not invalidating him. That’s who he was, but I would never have been able to be with someone like that. Yeah. You know? So… And I ha- I, I wanted to share this. I had someone call me from our field- Yeah

[00:36:14] Claude: in Vegas, um, and saying some things about, you know, “I don’t know why, but like all the time, th- these girls that, that I get are, you know, either this or they’re that. And, and I, you know… Like, what the fuck?” And I go, “I, and I’m, I’m trying to, you know, fix them- Well, what is the this and that? … 

[00:36:32] Aaron: and change them.”

[00:36:32] Aaron: Sorry. 

[00:36:33] Claude: Um- … either they’re, like, really into him, but then, um… What did he say? He, he was complaining about like kinda their lifestyle. Like- Mm … like one girl is like messy, and she’s not really like wanting help from Scientology, because it’s very important to him that any girl he’s with responds well to Scientology.

[00:36:56] Claude: Mm-hmm. And he’s like really trying, you know… Or he’s like, “They’re not really into [00:37:00] me, but like they’re willing to…” I don’t know what he was saying. It, 

[00:37:04] Aaron: it- Willing to get down, do the dirty. 

[00:37:05] Claude: Yeah, like, I have girls that are like really for me, but then like everything else about them kind of like bothers him.

[00:37:12] Claude: Mm. Or like they’re not really about him, and then he likes everything else about them. Mm. Like, a- and he’s always toggling between these two sort of relationships. He’s like, “You know, I’m always doing my best to like help them and fix them.” And- Mm … he said something, and then I said, “Well, the first thing I would ask myself if these two types of people kept coming into my life is, well, what am I doing to attract that?”

[00:37:36] Claude: Mm-hmm. And he was like, “Oh, that’s a hard one. That’s a hard one.” Mm. And it is. Mm-hmm. But same thing with a friend of mine a long time ago. She would always attract these men that were very abusive. 

[00:37:49] Brad: Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. 

[00:37:51] Claude: And I just had to look at her one day and say, “You know, I would never attract a man like that.”

[00:37:56] Brad: Mm-hmm. “

[00:37:56] Claude: It is you that is creating this reality for [00:38:00] yourself. You, there’s something you gotta change about you, not men.” 

[00:38:03] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:04] Claude: And also, when you are married, th- you know, you s- we were talking about like the thoughts you have about men- Yeah … men are shit, men are- 

[00:38:11] Aaron: Mm-hmm … 

[00:38:11] Claude: the thoughts that you have about your husband at this point are literally creating the man right in front of you.

[00:38:17] Claude: That’s 

[00:38:17] Aaron: so true. Yeah. 

[00:38:18] Claude: Like, if you’re sitting there being like- Yeah … “He doesn’t do this, and he doesn’t do that, and he’s this, and eh, and yeah, wah, wah, wah.” Well- 

[00:38:23] Aaron: He’s gonna become more like that 

[00:38:25] Brad: That’s right. 

[00:38:26] Claude: He’s… Exactly. 

[00:38:26] Brad: Yeah, yeah. Your, your thoughts, God, I don’t wanna get all like woo-woo, but it, like, I think there’s, there would be just general agreement with people, ’cause this is clearly observable.

[00:38:35] Brad: Your thoughts affect the people around you. Oh, yeah. Like, what you’re thinking about the people around you- 

[00:38:39] Claude: Yes … 

[00:38:40] Brad: and how you’re thinking about you affect the way that people treat you. Yeah. Like, it ju- ju- psh. 

[00:38:45] Claude: Yes. 

[00:38:45] Brad: When, when you’re walking on air, people treat you better. And when you’re like, people are like, “What are you do-” You know?

[00:38:52] Claude: Exactly. 

[00:38:53] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:38:53] Claude: You, you literally are creating- 

[00:38:55] Brad: Yes … 

[00:38:55] Claude: your reality all the time with your thoughts and your actions. 

[00:38:59] Brad: [00:39:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I wanted to go on the, um- Wait, wait, 

[00:39:03] Aaron: wait one 

[00:39:03] Brad: second. 

[00:39:03] Aaron: What? Hold on. I thought it was just so cool- 

[00:39:06] Brad: Yeah … 

[00:39:06] Aaron: that he was, like, this bad guy and this or whatever. And we, we, we, and the episode’s live- Yeah

[00:39:11] Aaron: you can see it. Yeah, yeah. Um, but- He became a Scientologist first. 

[00:39:16] Claude: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:17] Aaron: And then he’s like, “Hey, check this out.” And you were the one who’s, like, super clean and everything, but you didn’t, you didn’t even know. I mean, you weren’t- 

[00:39:25] Claude: No … 

[00:39:25] Aaron: you didn’t, you’d never done anything at all. No. Right? Nothing. So I just thought it was interesting.

[00:39:29] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah, it is super interesting. ‘Cause it would almost seem like it would be the o- other way. Like, “Hey, Scientology can fix you.” He’s like, “No, I did this,” and then… I don’t know, I just thought that was an interesting- 

[00:39:38] Claude: He… It is. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it can… I always say, like, the change that he’s gone through because of where he started and what, where he is, is so beautiful and massive, where I feel like, this sounds, like, so self whatever, or self-righteous, but I [00:40:00] started at a pretty clean point, that I didn’t feel like, like, “What’s my big story?”

[00:40:06] Claude: But it is- Mm … the jealousy, you know, and also my viewpoint on men. Mm-hmm. And, and so it might not be like, “Oh, I, I was a big drug addict, and this and that, oh,” but for me, the change happened also, just not in, in a way that a lot of people talk about- Yeah … or in the way that most people, you know, think is, like, this big, grandiose change.

[00:40:30] Claude: But yes, like, I, it… I see what you’re saying. But I was already, I was probably a Scientologist before, who knows? 

[00:40:38] Brad: Good, good, good. I love that. Well, here’s the thing. Like, people, people who, uh, start using Scientology to improve their life when they’re already in a pretty good condition in life- 

[00:40:50] Claude: Mm-hmm … 

[00:40:51] Brad: they just get further- Yeah

[00:40:54] Brad: faster. They just have a head start, basically. 

[00:40:56] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:40:57] Brad: Like, so yeah, I t- I totally [00:41:00] get what you’re saying, but it’s like you’re probably just pushing into, you know, a more nuanced change- 

[00:41:06] Claude: Yeah … 

[00:41:07] Brad: that’s probably also equally powerful. 

[00:41:11] Claude: Yes, I agree with that. 

[00:41:12] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:41:12] Claude: I agree with that. 

[00:41:13] Brad: Yeah. Um, on one, one point that you brought up was, uh, that I, I just wanted to ask a, a question about or comment on is, uh, you talked about, like, women who are maybe being abused- 

[00:41:24] Claude: Mm-hmm

[00:41:24] Brad: uh, physically or mentally. 

[00:41:25] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:41:26] Brad: They’re doing something to create that. That, unfortunately, by my opinion, is a completely… Like, me even saying that in a male body- Yeah, we’re gonna get 

[00:41:34] Aaron: attacked. Like, someone’s gonna be like, “Oh, how dare you?” Yeah. “You 

[00:41:37] Brad: probably get-” Yes, it’s the truth. Totally. “You’re terrible.”

[00:41:38] Brad: Yeah. She said it first. No, just kidding. Well- 

[00:41:40] Claude: I did … 

[00:41:41] Brad: yeah. But the, the point I wanted to make on that is, is, uh, I’ve talked to several women who have been in that type of situation, and then now they’re in a healthy relationship, right? Some of them Scientologists, some of them not. And I’ve always found that in the women who handle that and can get in a good relationship, they always, always, always acknowledge [00:42:00] something they did to create it, 100% of the fucking time.

[00:42:03] Claude: Love that. 

[00:42:03] Brad: It is one for one. 

[00:42:04] Claude: Yes. 

[00:42:04] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:42:05] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:42:05] Brad: Yeah. Uh, so I- 

[00:42:07] Claude: Because how- 

[00:42:08] Brad: Mm-hmm 

[00:42:10] Claude: When you assign blame to something else, you’re completely relinquishing your power as a being. Yep. Yes. Yes. So how… It’s your life, and, and this is one of the biggest things that I talk about too, is if you are gonna take credit for all the beautiful things that you manifested and created, then how can you not take credit for the things?

[00:42:32] Claude: How is it that you only create the good things that happen to you, but you don’t create the bad ones? 

[00:42:37] Aaron: Wow. 

[00:42:38] Claude: And that’s rough. Like, you’re talking, like, rape, things like that, where I’m sorry, it- it’s not like, “Oh, you were wearing that skirt, you deserve it.” It’s not just on that level, but there is some point there of responsibility, and man, that’s a tough conversation for a lot of people to have, but it is you.

[00:42:58] Claude: You are there. [00:43:00] How, how can you not be responsible? Mm. Something just happened to you? Doesn’t work like that here on this planet. Yeah. Nothing just happens to you, and that’s a r- that’s a tough one when you’re, when I’m talking to, like, people who aren’t Scientologists of, “Well, what about kids that die, and what about accidents?”

[00:43:18] Claude: Well, in Scientology, we believe in past lives, so yes, you’re looking at a little, tiny body, but there is a really big, old being in that body that has experienced many lifetimes, and here they are now- Mm-hmm … in this new, small body. 

[00:43:35] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:37] Claude: Um, and it’s very sad. I get it. But at the end of the day, the being is always responsible.

[00:43:45] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:46] Claude: But that’s, I know we’re gonna get some 

[00:43:48] Aaron: It’s a tough, it’s a tough one. 

[00:43:49] Brad: Yeah, 

[00:43:50] Aaron: yeah. It’s a tough one. But it’s, I also f- here’s the thing that’s kind of counterintuitive. If you look at it that way, it is ultimately [00:44:00] empowering. 

[00:44:01] Claude: Yes. 

[00:44:01] Brad: 100%. ‘

[00:44:02] Aaron: Cause you can empower yourself or you can empower someone else.

[00:44:06] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:06] Claude: Ooh, I love that. 

[00:44:07] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:08] Aaron: That is it. 

[00:44:09] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:44:09] Aaron: If it is because of someone else, you can’t do anything. 

[00:44:12] Claude: That’s right. 

[00:44:13] Aaron: And if it’s because of you, you can change yourself. 

[00:44:16] Claude: You can. 

[00:44:17] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:17] Aaron: It’s like, it’s that simple. 

[00:44:19] Claude: Really. Really. That’s it. 

[00:44:21] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:44:21] Aaron: If I’m messed up because of my mother, well, maybe I can’t change my mother- I know

[00:44:26] Aaron: and then I’m doomed forever, that sucks. Yeah. You might as well do nothing. 

[00:44:29] Claude: Yeah. Yep. 

[00:44:30] Aaron: Right? You might as well give up. You might, that’s destiny. 

[00:44:32] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:44:32] Aaron: If destiny is just done- 

[00:44:34] Claude: Mm-hmm … 

[00:44:34] Aaron: why try anything, right? If everything is predetermined and it’s all by the stars, and only by the stars- 

[00:44:38] Claude: And only, and the moon

[00:44:40] Aaron: well then why do anything? 

[00:44:42] Brad: And whether Venus is in retrograde. 

[00:44:43] Aaron: Yeah, I, I don’t know what that means. I don’t know what a re- what is retrograde? I 

[00:44:47] Brad: don’t either. 

[00:44:47] Claude: Sorry. It’s when the moon, not the moon, the planet starts turning the other way that it normally turns. Like Mercury goes in- What, does that? Yeah.

[00:44:55] Claude: Planets 

[00:44:55] Aaron: do that? 

[00:44:56] Claude: I, apparently, 

[00:44:57] Aaron: yeah. Oh, okay. 

[00:44:59] Claude: Retrograde. Fine. Retrograde. [00:45:00] Look it up. 

[00:45:01] Aaron: Oh, no. So, okay, so now in the church, so I know you do social media for the church. 

[00:45:05] Claude: Yes. 

[00:45:06] Aaron: Right? Oh, yeah. Yes. You are, you have a lot of views. 

[00:45:09] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:45:09] Aaron: Uh, you’re getting millions of views. 

[00:45:11] Claude: Yes. 

[00:45:11] Aaron: Um, so what- Well done on that … so- Thank you How has that been?

[00:45:16] Aaron: Like, you’re going up there and like, “Scientology, hello, woo!” Like, w- 

[00:45:20] Claude: I will tell you something about me also is, like, my knowingness. Like, nobody wanted to, me to leave and go dance as a dancer. Mm-hmm. Like, my parents were like, “You’re going where and doing what?” Like, but I knew that’s what I had to do. I knew it wasn’t gonna take me two years to break into the industry.

[00:45:38] Claude: I booked my first job at three weeks. I knew those religions really didn’t make any sense. Boom, I walk away. I knew when I read about the reactive mind, that was the answer, and I, I could give a fuck less what anyone has to say. Mm-hmm. If it rings true to me, it rings true to me. Mm-hmm. And when I saw Andy Holmes and Gunner Scharf- Mm-hmm

[00:45:56] Claude: I think that’s how you say his last name. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Okay, good. When I [00:46:00] saw what they were doing, it was first Andy, and I thought, “Oh my gosh, why aren’t all the orgs doing this?” 

[00:46:04] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:05] Claude: I wanna do this. W- I wanna do this. And so I joined staff, and- 

[00:46:11] Brad: No. Whoa, whoa, whoa, 

[00:46:12] Claude: whoa … yes. 

[00:46:13] Brad: Wait, does Andy, do Andy and Gunner know this?

[00:46:16] Claude: I think I have told Andy. I don’t know if Gunner knows. 

[00:46:20] Brad: Wow. 

[00:46:20] Claude: Because Gunner came in a little bit later, like after- Yeah, yeah … I started the page. Yeah. Okay. And then I was like, “Oh.” 

[00:46:25] Brad: Oh, okay. 

[00:46:25] Aaron: Okay, so it’s mostly Andy. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:46:26] Claude: It, it was mostly Andy that- 

[00:46:28] Brad: I may have hooked something up there that might not belong.

[00:46:30] Brad: Did you join staff because you saw these guys? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, okay. Got it. That’s 

[00:46:36] Aaron: what I thought. No, no, no, no. That’s what I thought you were saying. You’re like, “Listen- Yeah … I’m gonna do that. Let me join staff.” No. ‘Cause you hadn’t joined staff. Okay. No. Now you saw it, and you’re joining staff, like, almost to do that, or no?

[00:46:43] Claude: No. 

[00:46:43] Aaron: Okay, okay. Well, that’s how I understood it. 

[00:46:45] Claude: When I did my OT levels- It’s fine, though Yeah … okay, Operating Thetan, Operating Spirit levels, I had- 

[00:46:52] Aaron: Definition, cause over time, form, energy, place, time, form, and event. Sorry, I might have- 

[00:46:56] Claude: Yes … 

[00:46:57] Aaron: said one thing twice, but- De- definition of Operating Thetan … cause, cause over life.

[00:46:59] Claude: Cause over life. A 

[00:46:59] Aaron: [00:47:00] being who can control his life. 

[00:47:01] Claude: Correct. 

[00:47:01] Brad: Yep. 

[00:47:02] Claude: And, uh, I had a cognition on OT 2. Uh- 

[00:47:08] Aaron: Realization, right? 

[00:47:09] Claude: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:09] Aaron: I think cog- 

[00:47:09] Claude: Or realization … I don’t know if that’s, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, realization. Scientology, yeah. And I’m like, “That place needs help. That place needs help. That place needs help.

[00:47:16] Claude: Who’s gonna help them?” Mm. Mm. You know, and you almost are like, “No, no, no, please don’t. I’ve been called. I don’t wanna be called. Don’t, no, don’t, don’t.” 

[00:47:27] Brad: But it’s you. 

[00:47:28] Claude: But I know. It’s, I called… You know, but at the same time- … you, that responsibility of all of a sudden saying like, “I’m no longer gonna live…”

[00:47:38] Claude: Joining staff is a totally different life than- Mm-hmm … being a dancer, choreographer, and having your own hours and your own schedule, and uh, uh, it’s a big change. Mm-hmm. But I knew once I had that realization, there was no looking back. It was time to take responsibility for my third and fourth dynamics.

[00:47:55] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:56] Claude: Uh, which is, uh, the group and then [00:48:00] mankind. 

[00:48:00] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:00] Claude: And that’s when I, on, on OT 5, I actually got a call from someone at the advanced organization in LA. They’re like, “Can you come see me in my office after session?” “Yes.” He starts talking to me about, like, this new course that they’re launching, which is now the children’s courses that they have.

[00:48:19] Claude: Oh, wow. But at the time, they couldn’t really say. He was just like, “Let’s just say it involves, like, kids, and, and, and,” and I was like, “Say no more. The answer is yes.” Mm-hmm. Because I knew that that was the moment, the opportunity opening itself up to me for me to join staff. Because before then, my idea was I was gonna go back to Vegas, I was gonna go to the org.

[00:48:37] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:48:38] Claude: And I probably would’ve been like, “You know what? Never mind. Let me turn around.” Mm. 

[00:48:43] Aaron: Right, right. That fleeting idea you never grabbed. 

[00:48:45] Claude: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So at that day, after, uh, my OT 5 session, I said yes and I signed my contract before even going to the org in Vegas. So I had made my decision that day.

[00:48:56] Aaron: Yeah. 

[00:48:57] Claude: And, um, so yeah. So then I went [00:49:00] to the org to sign up, you know, to- And did 

[00:49:02] Aaron: you, you do a two and a half year or a five year? 

[00:49:03] Claude: I did a two and a half year- Okay. Yeah … when I first signed up. And, um, I went to go get a tour and uniform. You do all the thing, meet everybody. And- When I was first put on staff, you know, mainly you’re ca- you’re what’s called an expediter.

[00:49:19] Claude: Mm-hmm. So you’re there to sort of help in whatever area needs help. I love that we’re 

[00:49:22] Brad: getting into this. 

[00:49:22] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:49:23] Brad: Yeah, 

[00:49:23] Claude: yeah. So y- and then you go on study, because it’s very important that you get trained- Right … as a staff member and understand what it means to be a staff member, and LRH has, like, so much, like, juicy, good stuff on-

[00:49:36] Claude: how to work, how to just be a good staff member. 

[00:49:39] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:40] Claude: And I… That’s all I really did, and then as I’m watching more of Andy’s content, and I just thought, “Okay, fine, like, I’m gonna just start this social media- Mm-hmm … and be cause- more cause over what I can do here at the org.” So that’s what got me to start making the videos.

[00:49:56] Claude: And I got on a call with Andy and also Aaron Cairo [00:50:00] from San Francisco. Oh, yeah. And they’re like, for, you know, just, “We’re all sort of doing, like, the same videos. We’re, we’re trying to get just the truth of Scientology out.” Gave me, like, a basic, you know, here’s the point- 

[00:50:11] Brad: Mm-hmm … 

[00:50:12] Claude: of making these videos.

[00:50:14] Claude: Mm-hmm. And that’s how that started. 

[00:50:16] Brad: Wow. 

[00:50:17] Claude: Yeah. And then I got… I, you know, the first few you could tell I’m, like, trying to be like, uh. And then as I got more comfortable and I was on staff more, I started to put my own voice into it. Like, we dance sometimes because, hey, like, dance is so theta. Like- Yeah.

[00:50:33] Claude: Mm-hmm … why not dance? Yeah. And talk about Scientology. Yeah. So yeah, it’s really fun. 

[00:50:38] Aaron: That’s so cool. So what, what is, um… Since millions of people are watching you, uh, talk about Scientology. Yeah. What is, like, the number one question people get- Hmm … and people ask you about Scientology? 

[00:50:50] Claude: They, well, first of all, um, they always wanna know, like, where is Shannon?

[00:50:56] Claude: Okay. That, that’s the number one question. And by the way, everyone should [00:51:00] know that she is in LA at the Hollywood, on Hollywood Boulevard at the learning center there. Yeah. Or the, uh, what’s it called? Do you guys know what it’s… Is it the testing 

[00:51:10] Aaron: center? 

[00:51:10] Claude: The testing center, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The testing center on Hollywood Boulevard.

[00:51:12] Claude: She’s there. Mm-hmm. So you can go there and say hi to her. Um, I think also, how do I join? 

[00:51:17] Aaron: Uh-huh. 

[00:51:18] Claude: How do I join- Yeah … Scientology? And the way that I answer that is you don’t join Scientology, and I think a big misconception is that all Scientologists are Sea Org members. Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:29] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:30] Brad: Hmm. 

[00:51:30] Claude: And we’re not.

[00:51:31] Claude: It’s not just w- Sea Org members. So I explain it where there are Sea Org members who devote their entire lives to Scientology, so they do live there- Mm-hmm … um, at the church or near the church. Their housing is taken care of, their food is taken care of- Mm-hmm … everything’s taken care of, and it’s like a monk or a nun or a priest.

[00:51:51] Claude: It’s like 

[00:51:51] Brad: being at the Vatican. Yeah. I was just gonna say. Yeah, yeah. I was just gonna say, it’s like the, the Scientologist version of having somebody who is, uh… Yeah, exa- like at the Vatican. Yeah. Those priests are priests [00:52:00] their whole life. They go to school, at 18 or 21 they become a priest, and that is what they do their entire life.

[00:52:06] Brad: That’s right. Sea Org, same thing, but in Scientology. No, it’s not. Not exactly. Not, I shouldn’t say the same thing, but- 

[00:52:09] Aaron: In some reasons, in some reasons you can’t get married, right? You’re alone. Yeah, 

[00:52:12] Brad: that’s true. 

[00:52:13] Aaron: Right? At least, you know, on this- Priests can’t get married. I, I was in Sea Org, guys. Yeah. As, as maybe you don’t know- Yeah

[00:52:17] Aaron: but he definitely knows. 

[00:52:17] Claude: Oh, I didn’t 

[00:52:18] Aaron: know that. Yeah, I was in Sea Org for, like, five years. 

[00:52:19] Claude: Oh, I didn’t know. 

[00:52:20] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Um, and again, like, people ask, like, “Okay, well, done, and then you’re done, and then you’re, you’re out.” And I’m still around, like, well, you know? Mm-hmm. It’s not like- Yeah … it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a spiritual commitment.

[00:52:29] Aaron: Mm-hmm. It is not a, a legal commitment, right? Yeah. So it is a spiritual thing and, and if you change, then you change. But anyway, yeah, so I was in the Sea Org, but very- Well- … very tiny minority of, uh, Scientologists that- 

[00:52:39] Claude: Yes … 

[00:52:40] Aaron: that ever were 

[00:52:40] Claude: in Sea Org. Yes. And, like, without them, like, our religion just w- probably would not be able to continue.

[00:52:46] Claude: Right. You know, they keep the, the churches there- Mm-hmm … so that we can go and, you know, take the courses and do the spiritual counseling. So you have that level of, uh, Scientologists- Mm-hmm … the Sea Org members. Mm-hmm. And then you have people like me [00:53:00] who are on staff. 

[00:53:01] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:01] Claude: So we are sort of like a part-time volunteer, where we’re there from 9:00 to 6:00, or you can be there 6:00 to 10:00, I think.

[00:53:10] Claude: We have two different- 

[00:53:11] Aaron: I think 7:00 to 10:00 normally, right? 

[00:53:11] Claude: I think, oh, yeah, 7:00 to 10:00, and then on the weekends. Yep. 

[00:53:14] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:15] Claude: So you have your choice of, like, what schedule to pick. Outside of that, you get to go home, you get to have a family. It, Sea Org members can get married. We, they just can’t have kids.

[00:53:24] Aaron: Yep. 

[00:53:24] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:24] Claude: Um, and so staff members, you can have a family, you can work outside of staff, you can have, uh, you know, a, a regular life also. 

[00:53:33] Brad: You can be rich as hell 

[00:53:34] Claude: if you want. You can be… You, you can. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like 

[00:53:37] Aaron: Greg Cardone- And another thing to talk about, like, just the Sea Org, just a thing as a, uh, to mention ’cause you’re mentioning about the, about the children, I wanna mention that ’cause I’ve, was in the Sea Org and I had a…

[00:53:43] Aaron: You read the policies and what the rules are, and so if a Sea Org member, um- If they get pregnant- Yeah … um, the rule is they must leave and have the baby. Yeah. That is the rule. That’s like the written thing. Mm-hmm. Like, that is actually what happens, and I know several people, even someone who’s been on this [00:54:00] podcast where it wasn’t the Sea Org, got pregnant, and they’re out of the Sea Org, had their baby, and continued.

[00:54:02] Aaron: So- 

[00:54:03] Brad: Yep … 

[00:54:03] Aaron: just saying, it’s like you’re not like, you can’t be in the Sea Org and have a baby. Right. So if you’re gonna have a baby- Yeah … you need to be out of the Sea Org. 

[00:54:09] Claude: Right. 

[00:54:09] Aaron: That’s kind of- 

[00:54:10] Claude: And the reason is- Yeah … is that you devote your- You don’t have time for the kids … yeah, your entire day- Yeah … is devoted to the religion and making sure that it moves forward, so there is no time to raise a kid- Yeah

[00:54:19] Claude: as a Sea Org member. As a staff member, yes, it’s just like having a nine-to-five. Yep. Cool. 

[00:54:23] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:23] Claude: Um, and then you have parishioners. You have Scientologists, public- 

[00:54:27] Aaron: Members … 

[00:54:28] Claude: members- Yeah … who go to the church, who go to events, who, you know, practice Scientology, who study Scientology, uh, and that’s it. So there’s essentially, like, three levels is what I try to teach- 

[00:54:41] Aaron: Mm

[00:54:41] Claude: people. So we’re not all Sea Org members. We don’t all sign a billion-year pledge. Mm-hmm. Sea Org members do sign a billion-year pledge, but understand that people do this out of their own willingness. Like, no one is- Mm-hmm … you’re not going into a Scientology church for the first time going, you know, “I’m interested,” and then they’re like, “Sign this [00:55:00] first.”

[00:55:00] Claude: Like, that’s not- Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly … how it works. 

[00:55:02] Brad: Yep. 

[00:55:02] Claude: No. 

[00:55:03] Brad: Yep. 

[00:55:03] Claude: Um- 

[00:55:04] Aaron: I will s- I’m gonna tell a story. I need to tell a story. 

[00:55:06] Claude: Oh my gosh, yes. 

[00:55:07] Aaron: I need to tell a story. So again, um, I remember the first time I had heard about the Sea Org, ’cause again, I was in the Sea Org, um, and it was, like, a lifelong commitment, basically.

[00:55:18] Aaron: I’m like, “No,” because that’s my whole life like that. I’m not gonna do that. Yeah. So I was not interested. But it was interesting because later on when I realized I was a spiritual being, like, I, you live for an eternity. 

[00:55:27] Claude: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:28] Aaron: And then I’m like, “Okay, well, it’s a billion years, it’s a billion years, like, whatever.”

[00:55:31] Aaron: Like- Yeah … that’s, there’s gonna be trillion, like, who cares? But the truth is, at the end of the day, if, one, if you, if, if you don’t believe you’re a spirit, like, it’s one lifetime, but there’s many things you do for your life, and the truth is you can go if you need to go, and you’re done. It, it happens. Yeah.

[00:55:47] Aaron: Okay, so I know one person, one person who the first day he found out about Scientology, they joined the Sea Org. That’s 

[00:55:55] Claude: crazy. 

[00:55:56] Aaron: Um- That’s awesome … and that’s Jason. I sh- we should bring him onto the show. That is a [00:56:00] crazy story, and he was part of the Sea Org for, like, 10 years. Yeah. Uh, now he has two children, and he’s a very successful programmer, developer.

[00:56:06] Aaron: He’s, uh, uh, uh, pretty wealthy, and, uh, but his story’s incredible, and, uh- Oh, dude … I, it, it was unbelievable. Like, he just heard about it, this, like, “We’re gonna save the world,” this, boom, and he did it. 

[00:56:16] Claude: Wow. 

[00:56:17] Aaron: One guy. 

[00:56:17] Claude: Wow. 

[00:56:18] Aaron: Uh, we’ll have to tell his story. Very unusual, and it was like, he just heard about it, he’s like, “I wanna do this, blah, what’s the maximum?”

[00:56:24] Aaron: Whatever, and they’re like, “Good, this is what it is,” and, and he went and, and did that, which is- Wow … unbelievable. But very, very uncommon, and I’ve never heard of anybody telling, like, I even asking someone. It’s ridiculous. Mm-hmm. Sea Org is for the most dedicated, highest trained S- everything else Scientologist.

[00:56:39] Aaron: Yeah. It’s a very slim of the slim. Mm-hmm. I mean, that’s really not for new people, but it has happened once. 

[00:56:46] Claude: Yeah, yeah. That’s pretty cool. 

[00:56:47] Aaron: Um, and he asked for it. He’s like, “I’m gonna do this, whatever it is.” Mm-hmm. And, and anyway, uh, I have to bring him on. I’m like- 

[00:56:52] Brad: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. At this point we have to.

[00:56:54] Brad: Yeah, 

[00:56:54] Aaron: yeah, 

[00:56:54] Brad: yeah. Yeah. The other, the other point of clarification is there’s a lot of Scientologists who actually want, like who are public [00:57:00] or potential on staff, who would want to be in the Sea Org, and they actually don’t meet the qualifications. There’s actually very- That’s true … high-level qualifications.

[00:57:06] Brad: Yeah. No one, no one 

[00:57:06] Aaron: could not go to the Sea Org even if he tried. 

[00:57:08] Brad: Yeah, true. 

[00:57:09] Claude: Correct, he could not. And there’s also, um, I mean, this is probably getting too technical- Yeah … but even like within, when you join staff, there is a whole area basically kind of like HR called HCO. 

[00:57:21] Aaron: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:57:21] Claude: Hubbard- 

[00:57:21] Aaron: Hubbard- Communications Office, yeah.

[00:57:22] Claude: That’s right, and there are certain qualifications for that. And as you can imagine, I am the HAS, which is the HCO area secretary, which is over basically like hatting the staff, so training them- Mm-hmm … communication, uh, into and out of the org, and then department three is ethics. And so the qualifications even for just that area are much different than the rest.

[00:57:45] Aaron: It’s true. 

[00:57:46] Claude: Um- 

[00:57:47] Brad: Because you’re trusted, like it’s- 

[00:57:48] Aaron: Yeah … 

[00:57:48] Brad: you know? 

[00:57:49] Claude: Yeah. 

[00:57:50] Aaron: Big responsibility. 

[00:57:50] Claude: Yeah. Yeah. But you also bring up another good point, and a question I get all the time is can you leave? And I, you know, one of Gunnar’s things that he said- Uh, [00:58:00] he’s like- I love- … “Just take your two feet.” 

[00:58:01] Brad: I love this. 

[00:58:02] Claude: And I tell them, I’m like, “I leave every day.”

[00:58:04] Claude: Yeah. I leave every day. I leave and I go pick up my son, and we go home. Um, but also- And 

[00:58:09] Brad: I make him mac and cheese and, 

[00:58:10] Claude: you know. You can, if, if the Sea Org, like you said, like you can leave the Sea Org. Like no one is forcing you to be anywhere, and LRH actually does say in, in, uh, one of the policies I’ve read on staff that like h- you know, we don’t want someone that doesn’t wanna be there.

[00:58:27] Brad: Correct. 

[00:58:28] Claude: So- Yeah … there- 

[00:58:30] Aaron: It’s called Leaving and Leaves. That’s the name of the reference, I believe. 

[00:58:33] Claude: Yes. Mm-hmm. That’s correct. 

[00:58:34] Aaron: Yeah. Well, we, Sci- Scientology’s here, but like 

[00:58:36] Brad: a reference, it’s a thing written 

[00:58:38] Aaron: by Ron Hubbard. We can put the line in there, but literally 

[00:58:40] Brad: like- 

[00:58:40] Aaron: Yeah … that is, if someone wants to leave, we don’t want them.

[00:58:43] Aaron: It’s ridiculous. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s, it’s, I, I, it’s so ridiculous that people talk about this thing because- There, we don’t have time to go and- Mm … follow up someone who’s w- why spend- Mm-hmm … time on someone who doesn’t wanna be there? 

[00:58:53] Claude: Correct. 

[00:58:54] Aaron: Like, why? 

[00:58:55] Brad: Especially when you have floods of pe- I mean, like, you’re on, like, the lines of seeing how many [00:59:00] people are actually reaching into Scientology and like, “What is this?

[00:59:03] Brad: Can you actually help me?” Yeah. “Okay, let me try it.” 

[00:59:05] Claude: Yes. 

[00:59:05] Brad: Like, there’s no reason to spend time on people who aren’t interested because there’s so many people who actually are. 

[00:59:11] Claude: That’s right. 

[00:59:11] Brad: It’s un-freaking-real. 

[00:59:12] Aaron: You also can’t even notice. Like, there’s, they- Yeah … people come in and go and it’s like, “Oh, what?

[00:59:16] Aaron: So and so, who was it?” Yeah, there’s just so 

[00:59:16] Brad: many people. 

[00:59:17] Aaron: You can’t. I mean- That’s right … a, a, a, a normal, like, church has, I don’t know, 50, 150 people, depending on where it is, something like that, and there’s gonna be all, like, the, the people have been through or bought a book or this, there’s gonna be hundreds of thousands of people per church- Yeah.

[00:59:31] Aaron: Yeah … in some cases millions, and there’s 100 people in there, maybe 200 people. Like, you can’t ha- Oh, you mean like 100 staff … you can’t… Staff. How- Yeah, yeah. True … how, how? You, what are you gonna- Yeah. Yeah. It’s not even physically possible. It’s so, like, easily, like, I don’t know, disproven, but like- 

[00:59:44] Claude: Yeah. Yeah

[00:59:46] Aaron: how are you gonna wrangle everybody? It, it’s impossible. Mm-hmm. That’s right. Mm-hmm. Even if you wanted to. 

[00:59:50] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[00:59:50] Aaron: How? 

[00:59:51] Claude: Exactly. 

[00:59:52] Aaron: Mm-hmm. You might get a phone call. 

[00:59:53] Brad: Yeah. 

[00:59:54] Claude: Ooh. 

[00:59:55] Aaron: Ooh. Oh. Oh. If you don’t show up on Monday, someone might give you a phone [01:00:00] call. Oh my gosh. 

[01:00:00] Brad: Yeah, that’s another thing- Like- … is like, yeah- Oh

[01:00:02] Brad: if, if you say you’re gonna come on course and you don’t come on course, they’re like, “Hey, you didn’t come on course.” 

[01:00:05] Claude: Yeah. “

[01:00:05] Brad: Are you okay?” 

[01:00:06] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:00:07] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:00:07] Aaron: So, sorry. 

[01:00:08] Claude: Because at the end of the day- I don’t get into this … e- e- No, 

[01:00:10] Brad: I love this. 

[01:00:10] Claude: Yeah … the idea is to, to help. 

[01:00:13] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:00:14] Claude: And like, it’s really hard when you know of something that can help and you’re- Mm-hmm

[01:00:19] Claude: seeing someone, like, reject it, reject it or, or, uh, or like not commit, and you’re like, “But like these are the answers you’re looking for.” Just like any other sane person is doing out there of like, “This helped me. This helped me. Do this.” When you see a friend that’s suffering, when you s- you know, “Come on,” like, “I wanna help you with this.”

[01:00:39] Claude: So we’re calling you because we wanna help you and, you know- Sometimes you need like 20 different calls to be like, “Okay, you know what? Maybe- Yeah … maybe I should get back on course.” 

[01:00:54] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:00:54] Claude: I know for a fact when I started my journey up the Bridge, I had like [01:01:00] this huge button on schedules- 

[01:01:02] Brad: Mm … ‘

[01:01:02] Claude: cause I was a dancer, and, and it was like, “I don’t know, I could have, like, an audition.

[01:01:07] Claude: I, I could get called on set like tomorrow.” Mm-hmm. “I don’t know if I can be here.” 

[01:01:10] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:11] Claude: Mm. But the persistence of the staff members to just stick… ‘Cause if they had left me to my, to myself, I- Mm-hmm … I probably wouldn’t have gone as often as I did- Mm-hmm … and made all the excuses. Mm-hmm. That’s what we do.

[01:01:22] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:23] Claude: Mm-hmm. So I appreciate the persistence of, you know, why the staff members and the Sea Org members are calling and, you know, “Hey, get on course,” or, “Where you been?” 

[01:01:33] Brad: Mm. 

[01:01:33] Claude: Because w- we want you to get better. We want you to get the wins. 

[01:01:37] Brad: Yeah, and, and just a, a another point of clarification is y- you only get called if you literally signed up and said, “Yes, I wanna do this,” and like actually- 

[01:01:47] Claude: Correct

[01:01:47] Brad: donated and started. 

[01:01:48] Claude: Correct. That’s it. Like, that 

[01:01:50] Brad: also is- 

[01:01:50] Claude: That’s it … 

[01:01:51] Brad: you know? 

[01:01:51] Claude: Yeah. If you’ve shown interest at all- 

[01:01:53] Brad: Right … 

[01:01:53] Claude: right, bought a book or something, like- Yeah … that we’re not calling people who have never shown interest in Scientology. Yeah, 

[01:01:59] Aaron: right. [01:02:00] And I do know, like some- like I know of this, like let’s say, I don’t know, one of my family members might have done a course, uh, one time or something, and then like they didn’t really continue, and there’s like maybe a list, there’s a bunch of people.

[01:02:11] Aaron: They might get a phone call once every four years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Being like, “Oh, hey, we’re having this event. Do you wanna come?” I’ll be like- 

[01:02:17] Claude: Right … “

[01:02:17] Aaron: No, not really.” “Cool.” 

[01:02:20] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:02:20] Aaron: What? Okay. 

[01:02:21] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:02:22] Aaron: Wow, you got a phone call. Yeah. Sorry, I just, I just can’t get over this fact, like. Yeah. But really, um, it’s, it’s so simple to come in and, and you, you may be invited to something.

[01:02:31] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:02:31] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Yes, if you- 

[01:02:32] Claude: To something that could- You know … could change your life. Yeah. Like, that’s the thing, is we could just kinda play it like it’s a fun thing to do. Mm-hmm. And oh yeah, come or don’t come, I don’t care. Mm-hmm. I do care. 

[01:02:43] Brad: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:44] Claude: I do care because I’m only as free as you’re free.

[01:02:47] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:48] Claude: Truly. That’s right. Mm-hmm. You know? I’m only as good as you’re good, and so there’s a big job to do to get everyone to sort of be on the same boat, and I [01:03:00] not just gonna sit back and watch people self-destruct or watch- Mm-hmm … the planet self-destruct. Mm-hmm. You gotta be kind of like a gangster about it.

[01:03:08] Brad: Yeah, and the boat- It’s true … that we’re trying to get people to get on, honestly, is survive. 

[01:03:12] Claude: Correct. 

[01:03:12] Brad: Like, that’s the boat. 

[01:03:14] Claude: Correct. 

[01:03:14] Brad: Is please just join us in surviving better. 

[01:03:17] Claude: In surviving and surviving well. 

[01:03:19] Brad: And at higher and higher levels. 

[01:03:20] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:03:20] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:03:21] Claude: And helping everyone around you- Mm-hmm … survive better.

[01:03:24] Claude: You know, when I started Scientology, it was very much for myself. 

[01:03:27] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:28] Claude: I wanna get better, I wanna get rid of the reactive mind, I don’t wanna be jealous anymore, I me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, which is great because the, the, the idea that you want to help yourself is huge. But as you continue up The Bridge, you realize that now you wanna help, like, oh, I wanna help my mom and dad, or I wanna help- Mm-hmm

[01:03:46] Claude: my husband and my kids. And oh, you know what? My friends, I would love to be able to help them. Mm-hmm. And I would love to be able to help mankind and this whole fucking planet. So you, you’re, you expand your level of [01:04:00] responsibility goes from just wanting to sort of you be better to you just want everyone on the planet to be better, and get the wins that you’ve had using what you’ve used.

[01:04:10] Brad: Mm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:12] Claude: Very simple. 

[01:04:13] Brad: Yeah. Absolutely. 

[01:04:15] Claude: But hard work. 

[01:04:15] Brad: I have a confession. What you just said is, like, in this exact moment in time is very real to me, but say- Two, three years ago, maybe even like, even like two years ago, was not super real in terms of, like, I wasn’t cer- like, earlier in my life, like pre-Scientology, I had no interest in helping other people.

[01:04:38] Brad: I thought, I thought that that’s what was happening- Mm-hmm … ’cause I didn’t feel that, like the urge to help other people, because I didn’t think I could. 

[01:04:45] Claude: Wow. 

[01:04:46] Brad: I actually was like, there’s n- Wow … I can’t, I can’t fucking help me, and it’s literally taken, like, a lot of, like, me helping me to even get to the point to where I’m like, oh, d- for context, I found Scientology like five years ago.

[01:04:58] Brad: Okay. So it’s, like, taken, like, me [01:05:00] getting all, like, the stuff out of my own way to be like, oh, wait a minute, this… ‘Cause I knew, like, right away this is gonna help me, but it took me a while of actually getting that help to be like, oh, wait a minute, I can help other people, too. 

[01:05:13] Claude: Wow. 

[01:05:14] Brad: You know? 

[01:05:14] Claude: That’s huge. 

[01:05:15] Brad: Yeah.

[01:05:15] Brad: And now doing, like, a, on, there’s, well, we won’t get into that. I was gonna talk about training and stuff like that. Okay. Well, actually, no, we can go into it. You can train as a Scientologist- Right … and you can receive help, right? Like- 

[01:05:26] Claude: Yeah … 

[01:05:26] Brad: auditing … 

[01:05:27] Claude: spiritual counseling, 

[01:05:27] Brad: auditing. Yeah, yeah, spiritual counseling.

[01:05:29] Brad: And, uh, you can also train to deliver that, and me training to deliver that is, that’s what I’m working on right now. Oh, cool. Like, when I go in, and it’s unreal. It’s unreal. ‘Cause you actually get certainty on the fact that you can help another person. Help someone, 

[01:05:42] Claude: yeah. 

[01:05:42] Brad: Which for so many people is like they might think they don’t wanna help people.

[01:05:46] Brad: So I guess that’s my message is, if you feel like you don’t wanna help people, maybe you actually feel that way because you don’t know how or you don’t think it’s possible. 

[01:05:54] Claude: Right. But you said one of the biggest things, which is, like, you didn’t even know how to help yourself. 

[01:05:58] Brad: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And 

[01:05:59] Claude: [01:06:00] like, if you- That’s like step zero

[01:06:01] Claude: that’s like step, exactly. 

[01:06:02] Brad: Mm. 

[01:06:02] Claude: Exactly. You kinda have to be a product of what you are trying to help people with. Yep. If you’re a fitness instructor, well, you better be fit. If you’re a marriage counselor, well, I hope you’re fucking married. You know? If you’re a wealth coach, I hope you’re wealthy. 

[01:06:17] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:06:17] Claude: You know?

[01:06:18] Claude: If you wanna help people with Scientology, well, I hope you’re using it and practicing it yourself. 

[01:06:22] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:23] Aaron: I’m, I’m gonna take a jab at, um, psychiatry for a second. 

[01:06:27] Claude: Do it. 

[01:06:28] Aaron: But, um, there was a study which we’ll link below, um, which showed the number one profession of depressed people are psychologists and psychiatrists.

[01:06:39] Aaron: Something like, I don’t know, 68% of psychologists are, uh, self-proclaimed, uh, depressed or, uh, anxiety or whatever. Like, almost all of them cannot handle the thing that we- That’s more than two-thirds … that people be- yeah. That’s, it’s what people believe have the answers, [01:07:00] but clearly they have no answers. So just what you’re saying now, I mean, like, go and if, if you’re seeing a psychologist or something, whatever, find out does he have a life that you would like?

[01:07:12] Aaron: Mm. And I, and I just think that’s like a, a baseline. Yeah. Like, just if you’re gonna get help with something- Yes … is, is, is, does the doctor have good health? Does your fitness person, are they fit? Does the marriage counselor have a good marriage? Is the person helping with, with the spirit, do they seem spiritually well?

[01:07:26] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:07:26] Aaron: Mm. Do they seem happy? Do they, do they have a life that you would like to emulate? Because that’s what you’re supposed to have. And resoundingly the answer, uh, for psychologists is- 

[01:07:35] Claude: No … 

[01:07:35] Aaron: they’re all depressed and terrible and medicated. But I think that- And in fact, they also commit one of the most crime rates of any profession in the world.

[01:07:42] Brad: Yes. 

[01:07:42] Aaron: Like, it’s funny because people might talk about Scientology and be like, “Oh no, one person got called,” and like that’s harassment or something. And then you go to like these institutions that get shut down because, uh, the psychiatric institution- Yeah … literally has mass- Mm-hmm … widespread rape. 

[01:07:59] Brad: Mm-hmm, [01:08:00] of the patients.

[01:08:01] Brad: Yes. Yeah. 

[01:08:01] Aaron: Like, and that actually happens, and that’s not in the news. 

[01:08:05] Claude: Of course not. 

[01:08:06] Aaron: You know? Arcadia. Go look up Arcadia, uh, Health. Um, these guys, um, or it’s maybe Arcadia, Arcadia. These mental institutions, widespread shutdown literally because of abuse, raping of patients. Yeah. Young, old, all of them, abuse.

[01:08:22] Aaron: This is actually so common in this area- Mm-hmm … that people believe are the mental health experts. They’re not. 

[01:08:28] Claude: And dare I bring up- Please … actually, I’m really happy that I get the opportunity to bring this up because as it’s been going on, I’m like, “Where is Scientology in all of this?” Like, it needs to just be, like, infused into what is happening with the Lindsey Clancy trial.

[01:08:45] Brad: Mm. 

[01:08:46] Claude: And something, two things here. I experienced postpartum anxiety and depression, um, when I had my son. 

[01:08:53] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:08:53] Claude: I had never really experienced this. I was never a depressed person. I was a happy person. Life was [01:09:00] overall generally fairly easy for me. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I could confront big decisions. Yep. When my son came, it was like out of nowhere, I w- I could not handle or confront the life that was presented to me.

[01:09:12] Claude: Wow. And I was having very, very dark thoughts. As moms who you talk to that have experienced postpartum, they’ll say, “I had intrusive thoughts.” 

[01:09:22] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:22] Claude: Now, mind you, I was clear. 

[01:09:25] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:26] Claude: And I will tell you that that kept me alive during that time. Mm-hmm. Because what happens when, uh, you have an analytical mind and you have a reactive mind, right?

[01:09:36] Claude: So when you go clear, you get rid of the reactive mind. 

[01:09:38] Brad: Yep. 

[01:09:38] Claude: So, but there is still what we call OT case there. 

[01:09:43] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:43] Claude: Which you find out what it is when you do your OT levels. Um- But because I was clear, my analytical mind was still present. 

[01:09:53] Brad: Mm. 

[01:09:53] Claude: So it was like I could, I was having these thoughts and then I could analytically look at it and go, “That’s [01:10:00] ridiculous.”

[01:10:00] Claude: Mm-hmm. 

[01:10:00] Brad: Like, 

[01:10:01] Claude: no. It was almost like I could… I was, like, watching myself and then I would pull myself out of it. 

[01:10:06] Brad: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:10:07] Claude: Um, when you have someone, like, who’s not clear or you have someone like Lindsey Clancy who is having these insanely dark thoughts, and then you’ve got the psychiatrist who will- Yeah

[01:10:19] Claude: have her on 10 different psych meds. And I don’t care if she wasn’t on all 10 of them at the same time, she had been taking those for I don’t even know how long. Mm-hmm. They’re still in your system- Mm-hmm … for months if not years after you’re on them. 

[01:10:33] Brad: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:10:34] Claude: Um, the, the danger, like, if we’re not waking up now and seeing how the s- the drug is not gonna do anything.

[01:10:43] Brad: Mm. 

[01:10:43] Claude: If anything, it probably is going to worsen the condition that you’re in. 100%. And it’s important for people to look at that and go, “Okay, I’m either gonna go mask the symptom-” 

[01:10:54] Brad: Mm. ‘… ‘

[01:10:54] Claude: cause postpartum depression is a symptom of something else that’s happening. 

[01:10:57] Brad: Yep. 

[01:10:58] Claude: Mm-hmm. And so you go take the med and you’re just [01:11:00] kind of, like, maybe masking the symptom, but you’re not addressing- 

[01:11:02] Aaron: Mm-hmm

[01:11:03] Claude: the reactive fucking mind. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which is what that is. Mm-hmm. And it needs to be said, like, so loud and, and it’s not to say that once you get rid of the reactive mind, like- Everything is all fluffy and butterflies and, “Oh my God, I never have problems or feel anything ever again.” Mm-hmm. No, you will, but you will be able to handle it- Mm-hmm

[01:11:23] Claude: so much better without medication. You’ll be able to see, like, what is and what’s not. 

[01:11:28] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:29] Claude: Um, and I think that’s a very important thing to bring up, ’cause I had this win. It’s like, it’s not about you won’t experience any negative things. Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:38] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:38] Claude: It’s that you will be able to handle it so much better, and learning and making yourself more able to handle situations is what Scientology does.

[01:11:47] Claude: Yeah. You’re not just running to, like, “I just want this, this, this feeling to stop. I’m gonna mask it with a pill.” 

[01:11:52] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:53] Claude: And, you know, it… That whole thing sucks. You, it, it’s hard. Like, [01:12:00] I know what she was going through, and she didn’t have the help she needed. 

[01:12:03] Brad: Mm. 

[01:12:03] Claude: And for me, Scientology is the help that someone in a situation like that- 

[01:12:08] Brad: Mm

[01:12:08] Claude: definitely needs. That’s right. Yeah. That’s it. 

[01:12:11] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:12:11] Claude: Not running to your doctor- 

[01:12:14] Brad: Yeah … 

[01:12:14] Claude: who will just tell you- 

[01:12:16] Brad: Yeah, and I, I heard a, I heard a, a insane concept. Um, I think I actually heard this from Grant Cardone, funny enough, on his, on his Instagram, where he talked about how basically what the psychiatric industry has done is they’ve taken electroshock, which is now widely known to be an, an insane thing to do to a human being.

[01:12:35] Aaron: That’s crazy. Does not help them in any way, shape, or form. Although, although I’m telling you, it, it’s, it’s in use now more probably than it ever has been. 

[01:12:41] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:12:41] Aaron: Wow. It, it’s… Yeah. And, like, the electric shock, like, there’s literally… Anyway, we can get into that, but- 

[01:12:45] Brad: Yeah … 

[01:12:46] Aaron: there… Anyway, just keep going. Yeah. Keep going.

[01:12:48] Brad: Yeah, but it is, it is accepted at least at this point by 

[01:12:51] Aaron: most people. 

[01:12:51] Brad: Most, 

[01:12:52] Aaron: most sane people believe it’s horrible and barbaric. 

[01:12:54] Brad: Ooh, yeah, 

[01:12:54] Aaron: of course. But these psychiatrists are still pushing that 

[01:12:56] Brad: thing hardcore. I know. Same, same. So basically, the, the concept… I love [01:13:00] how Grant put this. He’s like, “You’ve taken electroshock, and you put it in a pill, and you basically are giving someone- Wow

[01:13:05] Brad: a concentrated, a pill version of electroconvulsive therapy.” Wow. And I was like, damn, that’s a f- that’s h- that’s… It’s accurate is what it is. It’s like- 

[01:13:15] Claude: Like, also, if you believe in God or whatever, like, hello, like, we are made, we’re beautifully made- Mm-hmm … in, in such a way. Okay, fine, like, if you’re… I don’t even know.

[01:13:27] Claude: Like, to me, you’re taking a pill, and you are completely altering- 

[01:13:32] Aaron: Mm-hmm … 

[01:13:33] Claude: who you really are. Mm-hmm. You’re not fixing . You’re, you’re, you’re altering, like, your brain in the way that it’s actually just normally supposed to go, and again, you’re just addressing a symptom rather than fixing the cause. Right.

[01:13:51] Claude: Like, actually addressing. So I was having a conversation with a friend who wanted help for her husband who’s dealing with anxiety because of [01:14:00] business, and should she do this, and should she do CBD, and should she- … you know. And I’m like, instead of running to something that’s gonna numb the feeling- 

[01:14:09] Aaron: Mm-hmm

[01:14:10] Claude: temporarily, mind you. 

[01:14:11] Aaron: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

[01:14:12] Claude: Then once that dose starts to wear off, you’re gonna need an, a higher dose. Mm-hmm. Instead of that, why not able yourself? Why not, like, empower yourself with, like, the power to handle and confront the thing? Like, we’ve gotta switch from, “I need help, numb this feeling-” Mm-hmm

[01:14:34] Claude: make it go away fast- Yes … to, “How can I just make myself more able to actually handle this problem?” 

[01:14:41] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:14:42] Claude: Right? And, like, something like postpartum, it’s important to know, well, the hormones, like, what is actually going on? What’s going on in your gut? Once I started sort of addressing my body and feeding myself better food and, like, things like that, I started to feel a lot better because- 

[01:14:58] Aaron: Mm

[01:14:58] Claude: in a natural [01:15:00] way, I was helping my body. 

[01:15:01] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:02] Claude: So knowing, which is what Scientology is, like, knowing what the is going on, and knowing that a psych med is never, ever, ever, ever going to address the real reason why you’re feeling those feelings. No. Ever. 

[01:15:16] Aaron: And, and even worse than that, right? So actually, the Citizens Commission on Human Rights, which is a group that Scientology, a lot, a lot of Scientologists fund, and it was found, co-founded by the Church of Scientology- 

[01:15:25] Claude: Mm-hmm

[01:15:26] Aaron: um, was at the forefront of getting the black box label warnings. Oh, wow. Um, I’m not sure if you guys knew that. You guys, I don’t know if you know that, but yeah- I didn’t … the black box label, like, there was lobbying, it was fighting. Like, the church is a big reason, CCHR- Mm-hmm … which is not the church, but founded by the church- Oh, wow

[01:15:39] Aaron: is a big reason why these have black box labels warning on them. Yeah. But these labels literally, because it’s proven Will cause homicide, will cause you taking your own life- Suicide … will cause the, all these thoughts. It, it literally causes- 

[01:15:58] Claude: Yep … 

[01:15:58] Aaron: these things that you’re seeing [01:16:00] in the news. Mm-hmm. But it’s not, it’s literally the opposite of a conspiracy.

[01:16:03] Aaron: It’s on the bottle. Yeah. Yep. If you read the packaging- That’s right, it’s the opposite of a conspiracy … it says this, this will get you to harm your friends and yourself. 

[01:16:13] Claude: That’s right. 

[01:16:14] Aaron: And they call them side effects, but there’s no side effect. They’re just effects. 

[01:16:17] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:16:18] Aaron: These are a- these are 

[01:16:19] Claude: effects. 

[01:16:20] Aaron: Yeah.

[01:16:20] Aaron: They, 

[01:16:20] Claude: they will occur. Please see your doctor. Please see your doctor- It will occur … if you experience these so he can put you on something else. Mm-hmm. And then they’re trying to compare Lindsay to, like, a Charles Manson. It’s not- Yeah. Yeah, yeah … it’s not mental illness. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. Like, it’s, it’s not mental illness, postpartum depression or whatever.

[01:16:36] Claude: But the fact that… And that’s the thing, too, is women have nowhere to go for actual help in that department ’cause no one knows what the fuck’s going on. Mm. And so you go here and they’re like, “Here’s a pill.” Or you go here and, and people don’t quite believe you. “It’s not that bad. Come on, you have a new baby.”

[01:16:52] Brad: Mm. Mm. “

[01:16:53] Claude: Oh, you know what? It’ll pass.” 

[01:16:55] Brad: Mm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:16:55] Claude: Meanwhile, you’re, like, internally being like, “I don’t know if this is gonna pass.” Mm-hmm. [01:17:00] Like, I… Why? What? And you know, I remember going to my midwives. I d- I had a home birth. 

[01:17:06] Brad: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:17:07] Claude: And I remember going to them. Wow, well done. Thank you. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Um, and they’re asking me, like, they can see that I’m not doing- 

[01:17:16] Brad: Mm-hmm

[01:17:16] Claude: so well. Mm-hmm. You know? And, and I’m like, “I don’t know, guys. Like, this is, this is pretty rough. Like, I’m not enjoying, like, breastfeeding, and I, it’s not, it’s not what I thought it would be.” Mm-hmm. “And I feel a little, uh…” It’s also very hard to say that out loud. 

[01:17:31] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:17:32] Claude: Anyways, they just looked at me and they’re like, “Oh, you’re a dancer.

[01:17:35] Claude: Like, you just need to grow up.” 

[01:17:37] Aaron: Oh. 

[01:17:38] Claude: So the dismissal also of- 

[01:17:41] Brad: But I don’t even under- So I don’t even get the concept. What, like- 

[01:17:43] Claude: Basically, like- ‘

[01:17:44] Brad: Cause you 

[01:17:44] Aaron: gotta… 

[01:17:45] Brad: Anyways … 

[01:17:45] Claude: you’re a mom now. Like- 

[01:17:47] Brad: Yeah … 

[01:17:47] Claude: you’re no longer, like, Chloe the dancer living her own life. You’re a mom. Grow up. 

[01:17:53] Brad: Oh. Mm. And growing up means just- 

[01:17:56] Claude: Now, I will 

[01:17:57] Brad: s-

[01:17:57] Brad: ignore suboptimal conditions in your life or things that are happening. 

[01:17:59] Claude: Well, [01:18:00] growing up meaning, like- Not suboptimal, but I had Nova when I was 38, so I had lived my adult life- 

[01:18:07] Brad: Mm … 

[01:18:09] Claude: doing whatever the I want, whenever I want, with whoever I want. If I book a job tomorrow, I can fly to China, I can go here.

[01:18:18] Claude: Noah and I would go ride motorcycles every morning, or every weekend. Like, go to sleep when you want, wake up when you want. 

[01:18:26] Aaron: Mm. 

[01:18:27] Claude: And all of a sudden you can’t. 

[01:18:29] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:30] Claude: You have this, like, insane responsibility. Mm. But for most of my life, I was very selfish. I only had to take care of me. 

[01:18:36] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:37] Claude: Now you’ve got this baby who you don’t really know much about.

[01:18:41] Claude: I ha- True … I delivered Nova, and, like, an hour later my midwives left. And you’re just, first of all, just went through that, and now they’re like, “Here, take care of this baby.” 

[01:18:50] Aaron: Mm. 

[01:18:51] Claude: And y- from what women see on social media and on TV and on movies growing up, it’s a beautiful experience, and breastfeeding is easy, and you see the mom [01:19:00] breastfeeding, and she’s, like, cooking her soup, and then the husband’s kissing her.

[01:19:04] Claude: And then, like, the, you know. And you’re like, “Oh, wow, I can totally do that,” until you see how hard it actually is. And for some women it’s very natural, for some women it’s not, you know? And again, I think that’s a lot of past life stuff and whatever your case is. 

[01:19:22] Aaron: Yeah. 

[01:19:23] Claude: Um, but There is really no one… My whole point in that is, like, there was, there’s no one to, like, go to.

[01:19:31] Claude: Um, and I think Scientology, my, I… So COVID happened. Mm. I had my son, and then COVID happened. 

[01:19:38] Aaron: Wow. 

[01:19:38] Claude: And I reached out to what’s called a field auditor, so they audit out in the field, and, like, like, she single-handedly saved my life- Wow … because she, she tried to put me in session, but sometimes, I don’t wanna get too technical, but there are certain things, like, to go in session, you have to…

[01:19:54] Claude: You can’t be hungry. You have to have slept. You know, you can’t have what’s called a present time problem on [01:20:00] your mind because then you can’t be f- totally there. 

[01:20:02] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:20:03] Claude: And she’s like, “Maybe your body is, like, a present time problem. Like, there’s some things going on. You should check it out.” And I did, and it, it, she saved my life.

[01:20:14] Claude: Mm. So at least- 

[01:20:15] Aaron: So what was it? 

[01:20:16] Claude: So I had, like, crazy, crazy gut problems- 

[01:20:21] Aaron: Mm-hmm, mm … 

[01:20:21] Claude: um, that, called gut dysbiosis, and my gut lining was, like, pretty much, like, ripping, so toxins get out into the bloodstream- Oh, 

[01:20:29] Brad: wow … 

[01:20:29] Claude: which affects your hormones. 

[01:20:32] Brad: D- yeah, of course. 

[01:20:33] Claude: Now- 

[01:20:33] Brad: Yeah … 

[01:20:34] Claude: also understand when you have the baby- Mm

[01:20:36] Claude: your hormones crash down by 300%. 

[01:20:39] Brad: Uh-huh. 

[01:20:40] Claude: So you’re pregnant and you’re like, “I had the best pregnancy,” like, mermaid hair. I was happy. Wow. No morning sickness. I could be pregnant 40 more times. 

[01:20:48] Brad: Wow. Yeah. 

[01:20:49] Claude: And then you have the baby and your hormones, they crash. Yep. It’s not like a slow- Mm-hmm … back to normal.

[01:20:57] Claude: Mm-hmm. It’s like… So a lot of women experience what’s called, [01:21:00] like, baby blues or- Mm … you know, ’cause- Yeah … yeah. Um, but anyways, for me, it wasn’t that. They’re like, “If it lasts past six weeks, then get help.” And you’re like, “What help?” Like, “What do you mean help? I know what you’re gonna do. You’re gonna put me on meds.”

[01:21:14] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:15] Claude: So, um, when I talked to her, my field auditor, and she, she said that, I went and got the body checked out. Turns out I had, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease- Mm-hmm … called Hashimoto’s- 

[01:21:24] Aaron: Mm-hmm … 

[01:21:24] Claude: uh, after having Nova. So there were all these body things- Mm … that were going on and, you know, it’s kind of like- Anxiety does something to your gut, but your gut also can fee- there’s like a gut-brain connection.

[01:21:39] Claude: There’s all this stuff. Totally. ‘Cause even though as a spiritual being, like yes, I’m going up the Bridge, like you’re still, you still have a body. 

[01:21:46] Aaron: Yeah. 

[01:21:46] Claude: You still have mes- you still have a physical universe that you have to handle. You can’t just be like, “Oh, I’m clear and I’m so spiritual that I’m not gonna handle the body.

[01:21:55] Claude: It’s just, fuck it.” No, no. Doesn’t work out. Like, it’s still your instrument- Yeah … and it can still have an [01:22:00] effect on, like, your mind. So, um, th- when I found that out, it was like I went no gluten, no dairy, no sugar, no alcohol for almost four years. Um, I lost 35 pounds, reversed my Hashimoto’s, and obviously started to feel way, way, way better.

[01:22:17] Claude: But again, this information, you don’t go to the doctor and go, “Yeah, I’m feeling very depressed and- Mm … and anxious, and I don’t know what’s happening. I’m having suicidal thoughts.” Like, they’re not like, “Okay, let’s fix your nutrition. Let’s like, let’s get you, you know, maybe walking.” Mm. ‘Cause walking is a huge…

[01:22:32] Claude: Like, LRH will be like, “If you feel crazy, walk.” Take a walk. “Go walk.” Go look at stuff. So Noah would make me walk like every day. 

[01:22:39] Brad: Oh, wow. 

[01:22:39] Claude: Yeah. But this, this information is not just readily available to a lot of- 

[01:22:44] Aaron: Mm-hmm … 

[01:22:44] Claude: a lot of women experiencing- And it’s the 

[01:22:45] Aaron: opposite. If you, if you go- Yeah … if you trust, a- and, and it shouldn’t be this way.

[01:22:50] Aaron: I, uh, hopefully one day it’ll be different, but if you go to the doctor, I mean, I think the, the literally 60-some percent of psychiatric medications are prescribed by general doctors, [01:23:00] right? Oh, wow. Medical practitioners. 

[01:23:01] Brad: What? 

[01:23:01] Aaron: So you go… Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you go to a normal medical doctor and you say this, they’re gonna just put you on a pill.

[01:23:06] Aaron: And they will, they will not… They’re, they, they spend about, like, what, 10 to 15 minutes, something like that, per patient. Yeah. Um, they’re not gonna get into all this stuff. They, they, they just won’t. They’re, you know, it’s not their world. First of all, they have 

[01:23:15] Claude: 30 hours of nutrition education anyways in school.

[01:23:18] Claude: Yeah. And they’ll admit it. It, I’m not making this up. Yeah. Or, like, I don’t even know if it’s 30 hours, but, you know. Yeah, 

[01:23:23] Aaron: so but there’s all this stuff. W- where’s- Yeah … the gut check? Where’s the blood test? Right. Where’s the whatever? Where’s the actual thing that’s really- Yeah … backed by science? 

[01:23:30] Claude: What’s the actual cause?

[01:23:31] Aaron: Yeah. 

[01:23:32] Claude: Because postpartum, again, if you’re experiencing that, it is just a symptom of something else. Yeah, of course. And now granted, like you’ve just gone through like one of the most crazy things- 

[01:23:43] Brad: Mm-hmm … 

[01:23:43] Claude: that a human being can go through, that a woman being can go through, which is birth, right? And then th- so who knows like what’s being triggered?

[01:23:53] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:23:54] Claude: As Scientologists, we know. Like, we’ve lived past lives. We’ve probably given birth, and it, it is a traumatic [01:24:00] experience. Some people have like really amazing births and oh my God, like awesome. Mine was actually not that bad. Um, but either way, the body experiences things. Yep. So it, sometimes you do have to focus on the body, but without- Yeah

[01:24:15] Claude: my auditor- 

[01:24:16] Brad: Mm-hmm … 

[01:24:16] Claude: who knew this data- 

[01:24:18] Brad: Uh-huh … 

[01:24:19] Claude: without her saying, “Hey, go check out, like, your body- Mm … not your… Don’t go tell your psych, your psychiatrist- … about your thoughts and your problems. Go handle the body.” 

[01:24:30] Brad: Right. 

[01:24:30] Claude: And it was like- It took no time after that for me to start feeling so much better. And I had never known.

[01:24:37] Claude: Like, I was a dancer. Yeah. I didn’t ever have to watch what I eat. I ate whatever I wanted, so this was a new- ‘Cause you’re just going. Yeah. 

[01:24:43] Brad: Right. Yeah. 

[01:24:44] Claude: And my body was always fit. I didn’t ha- you know, after having Nova I gained 45 pounds. I’m like, “What is going on?” Like, what- Mm-hmm. And then, and then I would try to eat and work out and still couldn’t lose weight, so like something was wrong.

[01:24:55] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:55] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:24:56] Claude: But not… I didn’t know. Right. Mm-hmm. So like, again, knowledge. [01:25:00] 

[01:25:00] Brad: Yes. 

[01:25:00] Claude: Yeah. I had to go find out about the body 

[01:25:03] Brad: You know, one thing that I realized as you were saying, uh, like the doctor spends 15 minutes with you before they prescribe you- Yeah … like this, this will be real to you since you’re on staff and you oversee this activity, but when you come into a Church of Scientology, one of the first things that you’re gonna do is a personality test.

[01:25:18] Brad: Yeah. The OCA- 

[01:25:19] Claude: Yeah … 

[01:25:19] Brad: is the abbreviation for it. And, uh, I don’t think I, I could even complete that test in 15 minutes. 

[01:25:28] Claude: No way. 

[01:25:29] Aaron: No. And- It’s like maybe 35, 

[01:25:30] Brad: 30 And by the way- 

[01:25:31] Claude: Yeah … 

[01:25:31] Brad: you have to do that test just for the staff member to be able to recommend a book or a course for you. 

[01:25:38] Claude: Correct. 

[01:25:38] Brad: Not a pill that will- Correct

[01:25:39] Brad: completely alter your mental state. 

[01:25:41] Aaron: With a black box warning. 

[01:25:42] Brad: With a black box warning that could cause you to want to kill people- That’s right … or kill yourself. 

[01:25:46] Claude: That’s right. 

[01:25:47] Brad: 15 minutes for that versus 30-minute test, and usually, in my experience, 30 to one and a half hour consultation about you and your life to recommend a f- uh, I can’t help myself, a [01:26:00] f-ing course- 

[01:26:01] Claude: Correct

[01:26:02] Brad: and a book- Yeah … to read. Like, the level of care versus just- Wow … f-ing boom. Like- 

[01:26:07] Claude: That’s right … 

[01:26:08] Brad: force care. 

[01:26:09] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:26:09] Brad: You know? Wow. 

[01:26:10] Claude: And we are in the business of, like- 

[01:26:12] Brad: Yeah … 

[01:26:13] Claude: t- like, “Here, watch this video for 15 minutes. Here, read this,” like a- Mm-hmm … a small pamphlet or something. Like, you, the person, get to go and, like, get the knowledge yourself, and then you get to decide, “Does this indicate to me?

[01:26:31] Claude: Does this resonate?” Right? Mm. And then the staff member is there to sort of say, “Here,” like, “I recommend this based on what you are saying to me.” Mm-hmm. Right? But the person first has to say, “Oh yeah, this resonates,” or, or, “Tell me more about that.” Yep. Where when you go to a doctor, like you don’t really get a say.

[01:26:50] Claude: They’re not really that inquisitive about- Mm … “Tell me more about that.” 

[01:26:53] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[01:26:53] Claude: You know? “How’s your poop? How’s your sleep? How’s your this? What’s going on?” They’re just like, “Okay, she’s not doing well.” [01:27:00] Prozac or whatever. Yeah. I don’t know. 

[01:27:01] Aaron: Yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s one of them. Now, I will say increasingly so, I think there is a movement- Mm

[01:27:07] Aaron: of getting better health. Yep. And there are the, the naturopaths. Yeah. There are the internal medicine doctors. There’s like a whole movement right now of people that will do these and have these long consultations- Mm-hmm … and check and it… But it’s based on a blood work, it’s based on an examination of the gut or on whatever it is, on- Yes

[01:27:23] Aaron: literally a poop test. They said- Yep … “How’s your poop?” Like- Yes … literally they will check your poop. Yep. Yep. Like there’s all these- Yep … different medical fields that are thriving- Mm. Mm-hmm … right now because people are looking for answers. Mm-hmm. 

[01:27:31] Claude: True. And, 

[01:27:33] Aaron: um, I mean, look at- Dr. Minkoff. Mm-hmm. Okay?

[01:27:36] Aaron: LifeWorks, which is right here in town. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, big Scientologist. He has a clip, he’s talking about Dianetics. Um, his fam- Dr. Bur- Like, Dr. Burr- Yeah … like, a lot of guys, and, and they’re… So Scientology knowing how to know. You have knowledge- 

[01:27:47] Brad: Mm-hmm … 

[01:27:47] Aaron: and there’s knowledge about the spirit, and there’s knowledge about the body.

[01:27:50] Claude: That’s right. 

[01:27:50] Aaron: And people, I think, these days are curious about both. Yeah. I agree. They wanna h- and, and you have to handle both. 

[01:27:57] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:27:57] Aaron: And unfortunately, um, [01:28:00] the answer that a lot of people recognize is this electric shock, electric shock in a pill kind of route- Mm-hmm … which is fast. 

[01:28:06] Claude: It’s the fast. It’s 

[01:28:07] Aaron: the fast.

[01:28:07] Aaron: Like, how 

[01:28:08] Claude: can I stop- Yeah … feeling like this now? You want something 

[01:28:09] Aaron: in 

[01:28:09] Claude: a 

[01:28:09] Aaron: second, and it doesn’t work that way. 

[01:28:11] Claude: No. 

[01:28:11] Aaron: Yeah. 

[01:28:11] Claude: Because think about- It just doesn’t … what, what, how long, how long it got you to get to that place. Like, what were the habits and the things that you did to kinda get you to this place?

[01:28:20] Claude: Mm-hmm. Like, I used, I used to be a certified functional nutritionist. I mean, I still am, but I used to have a practice. Oh. Oh, wow. Yeah. And, you know, women wanna lose weight fast, I get it, but think about how long it took you to gain- Be there … 60, 75 pounds. 

[01:28:34] Brad: Mm. 

[01:28:34] Claude: Your body, like, woo, give it, give it some time, man- Mm-hmm

[01:28:39] Claude: to, like, heal and, and go, “Oh, we’re doing this now.” And it’s not gonna ha- Same thing with the mind. Mm. You know? It’s like, think about however long you’ve lived before Scientology, and the thoughts that you’ve thought, and what you think is the reason for things, and then all of a sudden, you know, y- you learn about [01:29:00] Scientology.

[01:29:00] Claude: Well, you’re gonna… It’s gonna take some time to… It’s not a quick fix, but I would rather take a long time and know that I am- Mm-hmm … actually changing it for eternity- 

[01:29:13] Brad: Mm-hmm … 

[01:29:13] Claude: rather than just a quick, short burst of, “Oh, I feel better.” 

[01:29:17] Aaron: Yep. Yeah. And a long time can be three months. Yeah. Six years. I mean- It- … a year.

[01:29:22] Aaron: Yes. And also, honestly- Yeah … the amount of stuff that you could change in one week- 

[01:29:25] Claude: Yeah 

[01:29:25] Brad: Dude, 

[01:29:26] Aaron: it’s un- unreal … is incredible. In one day- That 

[01:29:28] Claude: is 

[01:29:28] Aaron: true … yeah … is incredible. That is- Yeah … I mean, I, I experienced it. Yep. Yeah. So, like, it… 

[01:29:31] Claude: Y- 

[01:29:32] Aaron: y- and you could be on the route fast. Mm-hmm. And then even the long… I mean, okay, six months.

[01:29:36] Aaron: Yeah. I mean, you, you wish… Like, I think these, some psychologists that are good people, which there are a lot of them- 

[01:29:43] Claude: Yeah … 

[01:29:43] Aaron: wish they could get results like that. 

[01:29:45] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:29:46] Claude: Oh. 

[01:29:46] Aaron: You know? Absolutely. They’re seeing a patient for- 

[01:29:47] Brad: Mm-hmm … 

[01:29:47] Aaron: 10 years on the same problem. Mm-hmm. A- and that is, that’s not, that, that’s true.

[01:29:51] Aaron: That actually does happen. Um, so. 

[01:29:54] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:29:55] Aaron: Yeah. 

[01:29:55] Claude: And I, I think they’re going in really hard now, where I’ve seen commercials [01:30:00] of- 

[01:30:00] Brad: Mm … 

[01:30:00] Claude: if your, if your depression med is not working, take this one, and together- Oh my God … together… Have you seen those? 

[01:30:09] Aaron: No. 

[01:30:10] Claude: Together- Yeah, I know … they, they will- 

[01:30:12] Aaron: And it’s not, it’s not tested, by the way.

[01:30:14] Brad: Mm. 

[01:30:14] Aaron: I don’t know if… Uh, do you guys… Okay, there’s a documentary. You, uh, I’m gonna put them down here. I’m gonna put just all these, but, uh, Marketing of Madness, uh, it’s a CCHR documentary, and Making a Killing: The Untold Story of Psychotropic Drugging. Those are on Scientology TV. I’ll put the links down below.

[01:30:29] Claude: Wow. 

[01:30:32] Aaron: There are tests- 

[01:30:33] Claude: Mm … 

[01:30:33] Aaron: okay, that the FDA requires. They require the study. They say, “You need a study, and you need to prove that this pill, Prozac- Yeah … is more effective than a placebo.” Yeah. Which a placebo is like a sugar pill or an empty pill or a wheat pill- Mm-hmm … whatever they do. Right. But it has nothing, Versa.

[01:30:48] Aaron: And they have to do a trial, and they have to present it to FDA, or they’re really supposed to, and, and usually they do to get the, the approval for these drugs. 

[01:30:55] Brad: Okay. Yeah, before they can sell it mass market. Now, 

[01:30:56] Aaron: but, but even when selling mass market, this actually goes to phase four, I think it’s [01:31:00] called, and that’s testing on the public.

[01:31:01] Brad: Fine. 

[01:31:02] Aaron: The first five years is testing on the public. It’s not it’s approved. Mm-hmm. It’s you’re testing on the public. Mm-hmm. Anyway, nah, it’s a whole… Put it in the, watch these documentaries. Anyway. So, but this is something crazy and, and, and you guys may not have seen it, right? It’s not like I, I… Anyway, the FDA does not require the pharmaceutical company to submit all of their trials.

[01:31:23] Brad: Hmm. 

[01:31:25] Aaron: They’re only required to submit two trials. So the, in the documentary it shows there was a pill, I believe it was Prozac, uh, if not, I mean, go check it, but there was 42 studies. 40 of the studies show that the placebo was more effective- 

[01:31:40] Claude: Shut 

[01:31:40] Aaron: up … than the drug. 

[01:31:41] Claude: No. 

[01:31:42] Aaron: 40 of the 42 showed the placebo was more effective, meaning if you literally take nothing- Oh my god

[01:31:47] Aaron: and put it in a pill and take it, people will feel good, better than the, than the, the other one. Man. 

[01:31:50] Claude: Because 

[01:31:50] Aaron: you- But they take 

[01:31:51] Claude: two- … simply believe that 

[01:31:52] Aaron: it’s helping you feel better. Yeah, simply because, correct. Absolutely. It, it is a, a placebo does work. 

[01:31:55] Brad: Yeah, placebo, 

[01:31:55] Aaron: absolutely. In fact, it works- Yeah … it literally outworks- 

[01:31:58] Brad: Mm-hmm

[01:31:58] Aaron: the psychotropic drugs. [01:32:00] But it’s that alone. So a lot of the effect that people 

[01:32:02] Brad: are getting- Because a placebo- … is because of that … leaves the person alone and works on the mind. 

[01:32:05] Claude: That’s right. 

[01:32:05] Brad: Of course. That’s 

[01:32:06] Aaron: right. And they’re just boop, they’re just thinking. 

[01:32:07] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:32:08] Aaron: But the two trials that showed that the drug, I think this one was Prozac, was more effective, those get submitted to the FDA, and the FDA says, “You don’t have to submit the other ones.”

[01:32:16] Aaron: Because the head of these companies end up working for the FDA, and the FDA- Mm-hmm … goes working for these companies. 

[01:32:21] Brad: Mm-hmm. 

[01:32:21] Aaron: It is one of the most corrupt industries, probably the most corrupt industry in the world. 

[01:32:24] Brad: Absolutely has to be. 

[01:32:25] Aaron: And they literally say, “Don’t show me the ones that place- placebos- Mm

[01:32:29] Aaron: more effective, ’cause I want you to get approved.” 

[01:32:31] Brad: Yep. Mm-hmm. 

[01:32:34] Claude: Oh my gosh. 

[01:32:35] Brad: Link is in the comments. Could you imagine caring that little for human life? 

[01:32:38] Claude: Could you imagine going to sleep at night? 

[01:32:39] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:32:41] Aaron: Well, you- Yeah … you s- you, but they do the, the same thing we’re talking about here. They numb it. Yeah. They’ll take the pill themselves.

[01:32:45] Aaron: They just take their 

[01:32:45] Brad: own pill. 

[01:32:46] Aaron: Don’t, don’t think about harming your patients. 

[01:32:49] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:32:50] Aaron: You have your depression, it’s just a pill ta- so they, you know, they’re- Oh my God … anyway, that’s, uh, yeah, you almost feel sorry for them. Almost. 

[01:32:56] Claude: Yeah. But, and you see why- Not quite … we gotta do what we gotta do- Yeah … [01:33:00] and talk about it every day and, like, just be very, like, “Come on, come on, come on,” because we’re fighting a pretty big- 

[01:33:06] Brad: Mm-hmm

[01:33:06] Claude: massive monster here- 

[01:33:08] Brad: Yeah, it’s true … 

[01:33:09] Claude: with the psychs. 

[01:33:10] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:33:11] Claude: Unfortunately. 

[01:33:13] Brad: Okay. Whew. Question. 

[01:33:14] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:33:14] Brad: Hard change of subject. Favorite LRH book? 

[01:33:17] Claude: Uh, my favorite LRH book probably is Is it creation of human ability?

[01:33:29] Claude: I would say that one. But also, you know what? I have to say Dianetics too. Okay. Because, because it sa- it, it literally changed my life. That book changed my life. 

[01:33:40] Aaron: Wow. 

[01:33:40] Brad: Yeah, me too. 

[01:33:41] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:33:41] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:33:42] Aaron: Amazing. 

[01:33:42] Claude: Yeah. And it just gives you so much knowingness about you. 

[01:33:47] Brad: Mm. 

[01:33:48] Claude: What is going on? What is the mind? Where is it?

[01:33:52] Claude: What’s happening? Yeah, 

[01:33:53] Brad: what is the mind exa- yes. 

[01:33:54] Claude: What is the mind? 

[01:33:55] Brad: Mm. 

[01:33:56] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:33:56] Aaron: Nice. And what is your favorite quote [01:34:00] from L. Ron Hubbard? 

[01:34:01] Claude: Okay, I’m gonna read it- Yeah … off my phone because- Please … I wanna read it verbatim. All right, here we go It is. A man is as sane as he believes himself to be dangerous to his environment.

[01:34:16] Brad: I fuck- Oh. Love that. 

[01:34:19] Claude: Yes. Meaning- 

[01:34:21] Brad: Can you read it again? 

[01:34:22] Claude: Yes. A man is as sane as he believes himself to be dangerous to his environment, which is so beautiful. It ties in so beautifully to what we’re talking about. Your environment most of the time will try to- 

[01:34:39] Brad: Convince 

[01:34:40] Claude: you that it’s dangerous … cave you in or…

[01:34:41] Claude: Right, exactly, convince you that it’s dangerous. So how dangerous in the best possible way can you be to your environment and be, like, cause over it? And that’s what Scientology does. It makes you dangerous- 

[01:34:55] Brad: Yeah … 

[01:34:56] Claude: and cause. 

[01:34:57] Aaron: So what’s an example of, like, that, something you’ve experienced in [01:35:00] your life where that’s, like, applicable?

[01:35:02] Aaron: You’re like, “Hmm, gotta do this.” 

[01:35:04] Claude: This just popped into my head, so I’m gonna say it. Okay. Sure, sure. So before doing my OT levels, um, my mom and I did not have the best relationship. So in essence, she could kind of feel dangerous to me, where her presence would be like, “Ugh, ugh,” and I was constantly, like, you know, trying to guard myself from her.

[01:35:27] Brad: Mm. 

[01:35:27] Claude: And as I did my OT levels, all of a sudden, like- I just started to love my mom so much, where it feels like I became so cause over my o- myself, that like that piece of my environment was no longer threatening to me. Oh. It was just, I like granted her so much beingness. I accepted her for who she was. I stopped trying to like fight her.

[01:35:57] Brad: Mm-hmm. ‘

[01:35:57] Claude: Cause if you think you have to fight [01:36:00] something, you’re definitely not dangerous. Oh. 

[01:36:02] Brad: That’s right. Right. 

[01:36:02] Claude: That’s right. Why would- When you’re dangerous- Yep … you’re like, “I’m not worried about anything.” 

[01:36:05] Brad: Yep. 

[01:36:05] Aaron: Oh, 

[01:36:06] Claude: wow. If you know you’re dangerous, then anything that comes in, you’re like, “I can handle, I can handle, I can handle.”

[01:36:12] Brad: The guy who knows kung fu never gets in a fight. 

[01:36:14] Claude: Oh. That’s right, because you’re not worried about it. So I, in a, in that sense, became so cause over my environment that like I couldn’t even allow… I could just handle. 

[01:36:28] Aaron: Mm. 

[01:36:28] Claude: But I didn’t even have to handle her anymore. 

[01:36:32] Aaron: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:36:33] Claude: She just all of a sudden was in my space, and it was like she was, she seemed totally different, but we ne- never had a conversation.

[01:36:42] Claude: I didn’t have to say anything. It was just that I was that much more dangerous to my environment that I created a different reality for myself. 

[01:36:51] Brad: Wow. 

[01:36:52] Aaron: That’s beautiful. 

[01:36:53] Brad: You know what that quote explains? And your, your explanation of it helps reinforce that, is why, um, martial [01:37:00] arts people and teachers who know martial arts very well- 

[01:37:03] Claude: Yeah

[01:37:03] Brad: are so wise and give very sane, solid advice. 

[01:37:07] Claude: Yes. 

[01:37:08] Brad: Because they’re dangerous to their environment. Like- 

[01:37:10] Claude: Yeah … 

[01:37:10] Brad: it’s very literal, but it is also true. You know how like the kung fu teacher is like, and I’ve actually met people who are like this. They’re very wise, like calm- Yes … sane individuals. 

[01:37:20] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:37:20] Brad: They’re not rushed by their environment.

[01:37:22] Claude: Correct. ‘

[01:37:22] Brad: Cause nobody’s gonna with 

[01:37:23] Claude: them. That’s right. 

[01:37:24] Brad: Yeah. 

[01:37:25] Claude: Same with like showing up and doing content for, for the org. 

[01:37:28] Brad: Mm-hmm. Mm. 

[01:37:30] Claude: You know? There’s a lot of people who are afraid to talk about Scientology because of the negative maybe comments that you get. Like, I could care less. Mm-hmm. Like, I feel dangerous in that sense of like, I will never back down.

[01:37:45] Claude: Right. I will never let anyone and their negative opinion or their horrible comment or their idea of Scientology ever make me sit down, be quiet, and not keep talking about it. 

[01:37:55] Brad: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:37:55] Claude: So- 

[01:37:56] Brad: That’s amazing. Yeah, haters are not dangerous. 

[01:37:59] Claude: No. 

[01:37:59] Brad: They actually [01:38:00] propel you. 

[01:38:00] Claude: That’s correct. Yeah. Thank you for all the love and all the engagement-

[01:38:05] Claude: because it helps get the word out there, for sure. 

[01:38:08] Brad: That’s right. 

[01:38:09] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:38:09] Brad: Thank you, haters. 

[01:38:10] Claude: Thank you. That’s right. Thank your haters. 

[01:38:13] Aaron: Okay, so question we ask everybody. 

[01:38:14] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:38:14] Aaron: Uh, in your own words, what is Scientology? 

[01:38:18] Claude: The ultimate gift of knowing what life is, of knowing what you are, and of knowing what your true abilities are to conquer life, enjoy life, be cause over your life, and the lives of other people as well.

[01:38:34] Brad: Mm. 

[01:38:35] Aaron: Amazing. 

[01:38:36] Brad: Beautiful. 

[01:38:36] Claude: Yeah. 

[01:38:37] Brad: Thank you, Claude. 

[01:38:37] Claude: You’re welcome. Thank you guys so much for having me. 

[01:38:39] Brad: This was amazing. 

[01:38:40] Claude: I agree. 

[01:38:41] Aaron: Absolutely. 

[01:38:41] Claude: Thank you. 

[01:38:42] Brad: And remember, don’t do nothing.